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This is a discussion on Signs within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So I posted a thread about my new holster and some how go into legal issues with signs. (Which was pretty good by the way ...
So I posted a thread about my new holster and some how go into legal issues with signs. (Which was pretty good by the way ) I woke up and went to Dave's Supermarket in Ohio to pick up some breakfast for the family. So as I was walking out I noticed a printed out piece of paper that pretty much said it was illegal to walk in carrying a concealed weapon. (It was so poorly written that I had to read it 3 or 4 time to understand what they were trying to say ) Then I went to convenient and before I went in noticed another printed piece of paper that had a gun with a circle and a line in it. At this point I am getting pretty aggravated because I can also barely read that one too.
So I went home and told my wife and the first thing that she asked me was I breaking the law while I was at Dave's. I said I don't think so because I did not see any signs walking into Dave's. So then it got me thinking if I did or did not break the law. So let me as you this if I see a printed sign that looks like the manager went to his comp in the back room and just printed it out saying that it is against the law to walk in with a concealed weapon, am I breaking the law? Or do I have to see the stickers that I see at the mall or some place like that?
It bothered me because for me carrying my gun is a right and some what of a privilege and I do not want it taken away because of a printed sign that any employee and any location can make. If it is not against the law then I might let management know that there is nothing legal about that sign.
Depends on your stats law; if you carry in NC and t5hey post a sign, you cannot carry on that premises
Pick one, it cannot be both. Choose wisely.carrying my gun is a right and some what of a privilege
"So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause."
- Senator Padmé Amidala, "Revenge of the Sith"
It probably depends on the state, and since the place has an owner it is probably pretty much his right to say no guns as it is for you to do the same if you wanted on your property.
As to the legality, that's a good question. In some states the signs don't carry much weight, in some they do. From what I've heard here and other places if you get caught you'll be asked to leave...... If you don't leave when asked you can be charged with trespass.
Of course I'm not a lawyer, and don't know the specific laws in your state, making this information worth every penny you paid for it!
EOD - Initial success or total failure
Right. It depends on your state. Some have specific requirements for what size and type of sign, and where they must be posted, for an establishment to prohibit carry within. If they don't meet those requirements then you are within your rights to ignore whatever inadequate signage they post. In other states, however, the requirements are very vague, and if you see any kind of "no guns allowed" sign then you'd better obey it.
WARNING: I am not a lawyer, and don't play one on TV, so take the following with that in mind...
On the other hand, even where the law is vague, I would think that if the signs were not clearly visible from OUTSIDE the establishment you could make a pretty good defense for yourself if you got caught carrying in there. If it is unlikely that the "typical" customer would notice the sign on the way into the store then they cannot really expect YOU to notice the signs. Hence they cannot expect a "reasonable person" to know that they are prohibited from carrying in that store.
Of course, the bottom line is that your best option would be to consult a local attorney, who is familiar with CCW law in your state, to get the real answer. Naturally you already have such an attorney picked out, in case you ever have to USE your gun, right? If not, this is a good excuse to FIND ONE NOW!!!
Some states require certain phrasing and wordage in order for a sign to carry any legal weight. I would call your state's attorney general office and leave a message regarding to circumstance at issue. Most states require the sign to look and read a certain way. Just as speed limit signs and the like. Start with the AG office though.
I called the attorney office and talked to a person that was real knowledgeable about this for Ohio. He told me that on private property if a company puts up any type of sign (May it be hand written, written with a crayon on a cardboard or on a computer) it is illegal to walk in the establishment knowingly carrying. As long as the sign is visible when you walk in. He also said that if the sign is not visible and someone notices that you are printing, they have to ask you to leave and if you refuse then you will get arrested.
So that means that the stome manager can have a 6 year old child write the sign and it is legal as long as it is posted. WOW!!!!!!!
Sorry for asking and answering my own question. Hopefully I helped at least one person besides myself out there.
I've run into this problem as just about anyone that carries concealed.
The first thing I do is if I happen to be near there unarmed or can safely and without upsetting the herd get my gun off and locked up is go in and ask the manager if the sign is corporate policy or local.
If it is local I get the home office contact info and contact them then and there. If corporate then I write a letter informng them of loss of my business.
If the store is locally owned I talk to the owner about it.
Either way I them that LEOs that come into the store on personal business are also breaking the law unless the sign states it is ok.
Anyway there have been a few that have taken the signs down.
Be Safe and Careful,
Mountaineers Are Always Free