Data on what percentages of distances shooting incidents with CCL have taken place?

This is a discussion on Data on what percentages of distances shooting incidents with CCL have taken place? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Percentages are for interesting reading. If I went by percentages I woudn't need to have a firearm. But I do...

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Thread: Data on what percentages of distances shooting incidents with CCL have taken place?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Percentages are for interesting reading. If I went by percentages I woudn't need to have a firearm. But I do

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  3. #32
    Member Array OldMick's Avatar
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    I went to a RACS training seminar several years ago. It featured Dave Spaulding, for those who may recognize the name. He mentioned the "rule of threes". Most defensive situations where a handgun is used for defense happen at 3 yards or less, use 3 rounds or less and are over in 3 seconds or less (and it's usually dark).

    Just a little more food for thought.

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    What will CW holders deal with? .. Car jacking, robbery, rape, assault, road rage, angry neighbor, etc etc ...... I have to imagine the distances are 3 to 6 feet. The biggest safety factor is 'situational awareness', having your gun accessible, and no 'Jam-a-matics'

  5. #34
    Ex Member Array lizjimbo's Avatar
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    As Sean Connery lamented in "The Untouchables", ...just like a ______________, bringing a knife to a gun fight". But of course all he had was a double barrel shotgun and Nitty had a Thompson...the moral of the story...so don't bring a shotgun to a machine gun fight. Fill in the blank. I like the idea of not standing to firmly where you are at when being attacked.

  6. #35
    Member Array MLittle's Avatar
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    I agree with posters that say that LEO deadly encounters (and thereby statistics stated) have little to do with civilian defense situations. The nature of their (LEO) job puts them repeatedly in front of potential badguys. Plus, the LEO readily identifies him/herself as LEO by uniform and equipment. Civilian encounters are a lot different in that the BG thinks the civilian is defenseless (element of surprise).

    As to knives.....sure I carry one, but I'm really not trained in it's defensive uses. Mine is carried as a tool to open boxes, etc.......also, there may come a time when a knife is needed (not in a defensive scenerio) to free someone or something from a bad situation.......

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MLittle View Post
    I agree with posters that say that LEO deadly encounters (and thereby statistics stated) have little to do with civilian defense situations. The nature of their (LEO) job puts them repeatedly in front of potential badguys. Plus, the LEO readily identifies him/herself as LEO by uniform and equipment. Civilian encounters are a lot different in that the BG thinks the civilian is defenseless (element of surprise).....
    Yep, all you have to do is keep up with national news to know that statistics are meaningless if you are one of the unfortunate few. And yes, civilian defensive situations are completely different than LEO involved incidents.

  8. #37
    Senior Member Array dV8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelixC View Post
    I read this article from What Really Happens In A Gunfight?

    Which summaries from my reading that the defensive shooter is at a disadvantage(loses) inside of 7-1/2yards and tend to win at further distances such as 12 to 15 yards.

    Is this correct?

    I take it the 7.5 yards is due to the 21feet distance which can be covered before a defender is able to draw their firearm?

    Is there data form actual shooting incidents with CCL holders to confirm the above?

    I ask because am considering a CCW but currently always carry a Spyderco pocket knife which can be quickly deployed in those 21 feet.
    I did not read it but your comment indicates the premiss that it is best to shoot first, if that is what determines who is on offense.
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  9. #38
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    I have read very few of the posts but will comment on your post as how I see it.



    Quote Originally Posted by FelixC View Post
    I read this article from What Really Happens In A Gunfight?

    Which summaries from my reading that the defensive shooter is at a disadvantage(loses) inside of 7-1/2yards and tend to win at further distances such as 12 to 15 yards. The closer you are to the fight the less the gun may be your first course of action. Going for the gun without the time or room to use it will get you killed. The closer the fight distance the more one needs training on the hows and where fores of fighting (notice I didn't say gunfighting because you need to have many forms of defense in your arsenal.

    Move the fight out to greater distance and the ability to hit your target comes into play. Distance will take the advantage to the more experienced gunman.


    Is this correct?

    I take it the 7.5 yards is due to the 21feet distance which can be covered before a defender is able to draw their firearm? Depends on the speed of your draw but you should be able to draw and fire before someone gets to you at 21'. The closer they are the more movement with the draw has to come into play. At arms length you will have to most likely go hand to hand to make the time and distance available to bring the gun into play. Again the closer the fight the more you need training on the hows.

    Is there data form actual shooting incidents with CCL holders to confirm the above?

    I ask because am considering a CCW but currently always carry a Spyderco pocket knife which can be quickly deployed in those 21 feet. A knife is better than nothing but against a gun at 21' I'd say you lose.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

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  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array BurgerBoy's Avatar
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    Why not settle it by carrying both a gun and a knife?
    DRM likes this.
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  11. #40
    Member Array Jaxon06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurgerBoy View Post
    Why not settle it by carrying both a gun and a knife?
    This. If you carry a gun, then your EDC should always include a knife. Distances can be compensated by your training - how and what you train. Can you draw and fire from the holster at the bad breath distance (arm length)? You don't have time or space to bring the gun to eye level and use the sights. There are so many variables to an armed encounter, that there isn't enough statistical data to prove or disprove anything.
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  12. #41
    Senior Member Array velo99's Avatar
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    If you're inside ten feet & clear leather you don't need to raise the gun and aquire the sights. From the retention position against your chest or side you pull the frikkng trigger til the BG goes down.
    I carry a SD knife and practice drawing both at the same time. I have learned a few retention techniques using my knife. The main thing within ten feet is getting off the x moving to your left and closing with the BG moving to his right making him revaluate his shot. By blading your body you can make a smaller target of yourself retain your weapon and get a few seconds to draw and fire from virtually point blank range.
    We have different gifts,according to the grace given to each of us.

  13. #42
    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelixC View Post
    I read this article from What Really Happens In A Gunfight?

    Which summaries from my reading that the defensive shooter is at a disadvantage(loses) inside of 7-1/2yards and tend to win at further distances such as 12 to 15 yards.

    Is this correct?

    I take it the 7.5 yards is due to the 21feet distance which can be covered before a defender is able to draw their firearm?

    Is there data form actual shooting incidents with CCL holders to confirm the above?

    I ask because am considering a CCW but currently always carry a Spyderco pocket knife which can be quickly deployed in those 21 feet.
    An important question to have answered before fantasizing about shooting anyone beyond approximately 20- 25' is if that is the distance beyond which you might be expected to attempt to "avoid the danger", in this case take off - that's a law in many states and one that makes perfect sense to me. I mean why kill someone if you can simply avoid the whole thing including threats to yourself to begin with?

    Practically speaking, most people aren't mugged from 25' away - the perp would have to start shouting (joke of course). I've always heard most SD shootings happen around a yard to two distance. That is more logical than 4 times that distance.

  14. #43
    Member Array BadHabit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HK Dan View Post
    85% of persons shot by a handgun survive. 65% of persons stabbed or slashed by a knife survive.
    Do you mind citing a reputable source for that statistic?

  15. #44
    Member Array Backroad's Avatar
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    I seem to remember some FBI (I think) statistics that went, "3 shots, in 3 seconds, at 3 yards" for the "typical" gun fight....

    al
    "gettin' there is half the fun."

  16. #45
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    Lightbulb

    Just a couple of thoughts:

    Iíve been to a knife fight and didnít have a knife. Iíll never do that again.

    Gun vs. Knife: Inside of 21 feet my money is on the guy with the blade.

    A man without a knife is only Ĺ dressed, and thatís if heís wearing a gun.

    Data from our own Force on Force studies support the fact that most people cannot employ their pistol in less than 1.5-2 seconds on average. Action beats re-action, and we are the ones who will have to react to the bad guy(s) moves. Distance is your friend and that's why (IMO) the stats show more success at longer distances.

    To the man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Same holds true for the guy with the gun. Less lethal options (like pepper spray) are a good thing to have with you. But remember that Bad Guys use it, too. So, learn how to fight through it. Close fitting wrap around shooting glasses can prolong the effects momentarily, buying you much needed, very precious time to employ your weapon.
    Last edited by DRM; September 29th, 2012 at 01:05 PM.
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