Zimmerman: Self defense or murder? - Page 2

Zimmerman: Self defense or murder?

This is a discussion on Zimmerman: Self defense or murder? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ballistics will answer some questions. What angle did the bullets enter the kid?...

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Thread: Zimmerman: Self defense or murder?

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array Once's Avatar
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    Ballistics will answer some questions.
    What angle did the bullets enter the kid?
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  2. #17
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    Just my take on this. Zimmerman screwed up by following the kid. What actually happened after he hung up from 911 only 2 people know, and 1 of them is dead. The 911 tapes don't really tell what happened, some have someone screaming in the background, but we don't know who it was. Just my gut feeling is that Zimmerman will stand trial on this, what the charges are we'll have to wait to see. I doubt they will press for first degree murder although they might. I also have a feeling that if he is acquitted in state court, he'll face federal charges, much like the police in the Rodney King case.
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  3. #18
    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    It's good this is allowed to be discussed here and hopefully this information might prevent this horrible event (or anything similar) from happening again. After all ,it's directly related to this forum. We should all learn from this what you should and shouldn't do. We are not Police so don't act like one.

    Very sad indeed.
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  4. #19
    Member Array Eldon Hickey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tactilame View Post
    I agree. I remember when I was that kids age; I was often in places I wasn't supposed to be, and let me tell you; if some guy approached me and started chasing after me, I would be running too. And if he caught up with me, I'd be putting up a fight. The guy wasn't a police officer, he had no reason to be acting like one. How could the kid know Zimmerman wasn't just some creep coming after him for no reason?

    This situation would probably be a lot different if Zimmerman were LEO, but the fact of the matter is that he's not. He had no reason to chase the kid, and IMO he had an obligation to just play the part of a good witness.
    The kid, in a strange neighborhood at night, could very well have thought Zimmerman was a sexual predator attempting to kidnap him....that would explain his cries for help.

  5. #20
    Member Array Eldon Hickey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Once View Post
    Ballistics will answer some questions.
    What angle did the bullets enter the kid?
    Absolutely! ....and how far was he from the muzzle. There's still a great deal to learn, but this latest release of evidence doesn't cast Zimmerman in a favorable light for sure.

  6. #21
    Member Array Eldon Hickey's Avatar
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    Here's a question for you--Suppose the kid had been carrying legally...some big guy following him on a dark street chases him, runs him down...the kid kills Zimmerman--pretty good case for self-defense?. What do you suppose would be the outcome of that? I would imagine that most of us would feel justified in drawing in that situation?

  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array Elk Hunter's Avatar
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    I don't like it, I think there is fault to go around the problem is a young man is dead

  8. #23
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    Having read the previous threads and links plus now having listened to the 911 tapes I must agree with others here, far too many questions and too few answers. I do not envy the DA or the grand jury in sorting this out. I do see the possibility of maybe a charge of manslaughter but not of murder followed by a wrongful death lawsuit.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
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  9. #24
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    The whole situation could have been avoided if Zimmerman had stayed inside his car. If Zimmerman was an Armed Guard for a gated community or a Police Officer I could understand him coming out of his car for the fact a kid was walking at night, but he was not either of the two, he was a NW Captain. The fact he got out of his vehicle when nobodies life was in immediate danger, shows that he was looking for a conflict or that he had given into an escalated situation. Zimmerman being a Captain of his local Neighborhood Watch would leave me to believe that he should have known better than to exit his vehicle which leads me to believe that he had some intention to do something to this kid. Looking at the pictures, I believe Zimmerman was plenty larger than the kid and did not have to resort to deadly force.

    There is still a lot of information we do not know, but the fact that Zimmerman got out of his car should put up some serious red flags.
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  10. #25
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    Listened to the files again...

    On the call from Z, he described T as wearing a grey hoody... In the 3rd tape the lady said she saw a guy with a white T-Shirt on top of the other person... Unless the hoody was lost during the struggle, Z was on top of T...

    Food for thought
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    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

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  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Here's my opinion, of which I'm sure many may not like:

    Facts :
    1. Zimmerman was part of a neighborhood watch program, to watch out for suspicious people or anything illegal going on in the neighborhood. Thought : he may have been thinking he was doing what he was supposed to do, to help stop crime by a) reporting a suspicious person, b) keeping them in sight, c) helping police to locate the person when police got there.
    2. There had a been a rash of burlaries there.
    3. He saw someone and called 911,

    Opinion :
    1. Anyone who thinks these 911 tapes show anything, is dreaming. There is nothing "factual" in them... it's all people after the fact, who saw nothing, weren't sure of what happened, may have heard a gunshot & someone screaming "help", can tell you where the person is, and that's it.
    2. The tapes do show something good for everyone to be conscious of, after someone fires a gun (say you just shot someone in self-defense) .... the panic that people will have when they call 911 to report it without being a real witness to what actually occurred.
    3. No one knows what really happened, but it shows how easily the public is about jumping to conclusions, and for anyone here who shoots in self-defense, could be hung in public opinion without knowing what really happened.
    4. How people can easily turn something into a 'racial ' issue, and have nothing to back up their claims.

    Let the police do their work. Then find out what the investigation shows. The police have no reason here to conceal or sway anything in one direction or the other.

    Wait, until the real facts are known.
    TVille, stancehold, JD and 8 others like this.
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  12. #27
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    Eagleks, you make some very good points... I agree we don't know much, but very good points
    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

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  13. #28
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    I think the shooter is in big trouble and at least headed for a financial disaster from legal fees. A life changing event.

    1)Justified use of deadly force would require that the test of immediate threat of bodily harm must be met. From early reports, the youth had no weapon.
    2)Even if the youth had a weapon, it appears Zimmerman had the option of avoiding or retreating from confrontation rather than following. It appears the youth was going away from him. So Zimmerman cannot use the argument that he thought the youth was armed. That would only apply if he was confronted at where he was conducting his watch (at the car) with no choice but to defend himself.

    I think second degree murder is a possibility with an aggressive prosecutor or public officials under public pressure. Possibility of DOJ inquiry could come into play if the local authorities don't prosecute. Neighborhood watch does not require one to be armed (probably not recommended by most LE) or to follow a suspect to avoid confrontation. He won't have a sympathetic jury if portrayed as having armed himself with the intent to chase and hunt down to kill (not capture) anyone that did not agree to him in appearance/mannerisms.

    As mentioned, it still has to be sorted out. But I think one lesson to take from this, especially you younger bucks, is not to let your testosterone and adrenaline cause questionable or bad decisions (due to over aggressiveness) while bearing the responsibility of legally carrying a firearm.
    Sig35seven and Eldon Hickey like this.

  14. #29
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    Z escalated the situation,he already had made up his mind that the kid was up to no good,and is stating during the call "He has his hand in his waist band" Inferring that he could have a weapon,and "They always get away" again already made up his mind the kid is up to no good.The kid had every right to be where he was without being accosted by a wannabe Cop.
    He wouldn't want me sitting on a Jury cause I would be voting for voluntary manslaughter
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  15. #30
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    We need to hear his side of the story.
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