Zimmerman: Self defense or murder?

This is a discussion on Zimmerman: Self defense or murder? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Has anyone read if Zimmerman had any significant injuries? I have not read about Zimmerman even being treated on the scene for cuts let alone ...

Page 3 of 56 FirstFirst 12345671353 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 827
Like Tree709Likes

Thread: Zimmerman: Self defense or murder?

  1. #31
    Member Array jack76590's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    151
    Has anyone read if Zimmerman had any significant injuries? I have not read about Zimmerman even being treated on the scene for cuts let alone admitted to hospital.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #32
    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,970
    There are some very serious problems here. The tape of Zimmerman speaking with the Sanford dispatcher, where he says this, is hard to explain:

    These [expletive], they always get away...
    And, his tone of voice. He sounds like he's about to fall asleep. Bored, laconic, this is not the sound of a man in mortal fear for his life. So how we do get from a guy comfortable in his SUV to a dead kid? He had to exit his vehicle and confront Martin. That is not disputable.

    This reminds me a lot of the Campos shooting, as described here. The Utah sheriff's office said, regarding that case, "When on neighborhood watch, leave guns at home."

    The racial aspect arises now because nobody can understand why Zimmerman wasn't arrested. The police arrive and we have a dead person on the scene. Everything we know about using your firearm for self defense says that you should expect to be taken into custody if you kill somebody. This writer puts it bluntly:

    Of course, the most pressing question is this: What, exactly, was it that made this boy seem "suspicious"? The available evidence suggests a sad and simple answer: He existed while black.
    For their part, the Sanford police statement is: "We found no evidence to contradict Mr Zimmerman's statement."
    Eldon Hickey likes this.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  4. #33
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    10,030
    "For their part, the Sanford police statement is: "We found no evidence to contradict Mr Zimmerman's statement."

    It appears as though Mr. Zimmerman himself initiated the confrontation, escalated it, then responded lethally with a huge disparity of force. What elements of his statement might indicate otherwise, or would need contradiction in order to present the facts to a grand jury for consideration?
    Eldon Hickey likes this.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    2,817
    I'm not really sure how this can be turned into a race issue, since Zimmerman is also a minority, but from reading some of the articles, it is indeed becoming a race issue.
    oneshot likes this.
    "My problem with life is not that it is rational nor that it is irrational, but that it is almost rational." - G.K. Chesterton

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    2,559
    This is a difficult subject. More so for us legal firearm carrying citizens with a mindset towards self protection. I personally applaud this forum and it's members for confronting, and discussing this incident head on.

    With the release of the 911 tapes I for one get a better feel for the entire mess. Contrary to many opinions the seeming lethargy of Neighborhood watch guys call is normal. He's not excited... he's calm. We dont know if he makes these calls often, or he's just reporting it as matter of factly. I just dont see this as any indocator. His statement that "They always get away" is just that a statement of opinion. As he indicated there had been a rash of burglaries in the community. I'd opine that he was talking about the burglers who did in fact get away. WE know that the kid wasnt a permenant resident in the community, and neighborhood watch guy may not have recognized him as a neighbor. This I think is normal. (I live in a gated comunity, and I also take notice when sn outsider is on property. I also keep an eye on them until my suspicions are satisfied. And yes I do usually have a handgun on me too.)

    I do have a problem with neighborhood watch guy confronting the kid. He was instructed by the POLICE DEPARTMENT to allow them to handle the situation. Instead he confronted the kid, and evidently got his rump handed to him. Neighborhood watch guy seem's to have made up his mind the kid was some kind of a crime going someplace to happen. Had neighborhood watch guy followed the instructions given him, this incedent would probably have ended with an introduction to each other by the police, then hand shakes, and maybe even friendship. Or had neighborhood watch guy followed instructions he's have seen the kid enter his Dad's home... end of suspicion. My opinion is Neighborhood watch guy should be charged with some form of manslaughter, or negligent homicide. IMO His claim of self defense is akin to poking a stick at a gator, and when the gator hiss at you then shoot it as a nusance. IMO Neighborhood watch guy was at a minimum negligent, and I believe a case could be made for murder based on his 911 statements, (They always get away, now he's coming towards me, he has his hand in his waist) and his final actions of shooting and killing someone 100 pounds lighter two feet shorter, and 10 years younger.
    Eldon Hickey likes this.

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    2,559
    IMO Race had nothing to do with the initial incident. I just dont get that feel. Other than giving the kids description as black, I didnt get any indication of a racial issue. Now that the press, racial asonists, and an obviously biased police investigation it has become a central issue.

  8. #37
    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,970
    IMO Race had nothing to do with the initial incident. I just dont get that feel.
    When Zimmerman starts in on the "It's a black male," "Black kid," etc., and the dispatcher is going, "OK, we got a black teenager..." It's heading in that direction.

    In one of the stories on this case, we have an account from neighbors saying that Zimmerman was asking residents to "be on the lookout for black kids." So he had profiled the burglars in his mind and Martin fit the profile. What's important for us, as defenders, is to learn from this incident.

    Your firearm is with you for personal protection against violent assault. It's not your badge that you use to thwart crime and bring suspected wrongdoers to justice. Bear in mind that Zimmerman's actions here threaten our rights to own firearms for personal defense. He makes us all look bad - what he did is what the anti-gun crowd is worried about.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    6,927
    A perfect example of what NOT to do while carrying...I hope that Zimmerman gets his in the end. He brought the fight, then escalated it, then shot the kid.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  10. #39
    Member Array AustinS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Daytona Beach Fl
    Posts
    134
    There was 7 tapes released so listen to all of them. I believe it's murder cause the kid got scared and ran away from him he FOLLOWED then approached him and started a fight. I say the kid had more of a self defense case then the nhw guy.
    Secret Spuk and Eldon Hickey like this.

  11. #40
    Member Array stancehold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    354
    Quote Originally Posted by jack76590 View Post
    Has anyone read if Zimmerman had any significant injuries? I have not read about Zimmerman even being treated on the scene for cuts let alone admitted to hospital.
    It was reported that he had lacerations on the back of his head and a bloody face, I believe. Also, grass was on the back of his clothing.

  12. #41
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    10,030
    The mainstream media is staying on this one, so I anticipate action from the DOJ if the locals don't handle it to public satisfaction.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA
    Posts
    588
    Very tragic. I don't think its murder, but do think he should be charged with manslaughter. He went looking for a confrontation instead of being a good witness and letting the police handle it. Nobody's life was in danger until he stepped in.
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

  14. #43
    Senior Member
    Array 1911_Kimber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    732
    IMHO we don't have enough information to truly say he did not have a good motive to shoot and kill.

    The race issue is being exaggerated only based on the call. I see having a profile only meaning that there may have been descriptions of suspicious black individuals lurking around the neighborhood.

    At first I believed he was wrong in pursuing T, but at that time I did not know he was a NW captain. A bad decision, maybe but if I was keeping a watchful eye after a string of burglaries in my neighborhood, I can see myself "cautiously" keeping an eye on a probable suspicious individual.

    As for having a weapon, all I'll ask is this: How many of you would take a stroll or drive around the neighborhood (after hearing about multiple burglaries) unarmed?

    I say let's wait to see what the authorities discover. Yes the tapes are chilling only because we are hearing death and fear. But it does not show what went on
    Eldon Hickey likes this.
    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

    -James Earl Jones


  15. #44
    Senior Member Array DMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    MT
    Posts
    1,012
    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    I'm not really sure how this can be turned into a race issue, since Zimmerman is also a minority, but from reading some of the articles, it is indeed becoming a race issue.
    I really hate "the race issue", but one thing to consider - "the race issue" is not "whites versus minority" it is "Race versus Race" How many "whites" have a race issue against other "whites" that happen to be Jewish?

    In this case, we have someone in MY opinion (I am not a lawyer, judge, police officer or jury member involved in this case), we have two individuals, intention of both are unknown, one sees the other as a threat, and determines that he will make sure that "these $%* won't get away this time". This attitude escalated the situation. Regardless of intention of dead fellow, the death could have and should have been avoided by deescalating the situation, and let the authorities terminate the situation. Zimmerman was not the authority to terminate the situation.
    "Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA
    Posts
    5,119
    Most here fell Z was at fault, and he probably will be found at fault. But consider this: What if the kid had been found to be in possession of a firearm, or burglary tools, or drugs? Z then most likely would be the hero of this story. Not too may decades ago SCOTUS had to tell LEOs that "running form the police" was not justifiable cause to shoot at the fleeing perp. Not too many decades ago chasing someone who was suspicious and fleeing would be considered totally acceptable in most circumstances. What if he wasn't the NW Capt, but simply a homeowner who spotted a strange kid in the neighborhood?

    Remember not too long ago Joe Horn of Texas shot burglars who were leaving his neighbor's house, after telling a dispatcher he was going to shoot them, and the dispatcher telling him not to shoo them, and got off scott free.

    Society today expects citizens to avoid conflict and call 911 to let the LEOs handle everything. But then we complain when we OC and somebody calls the LEOs on us. Some here espouse the theory that their CCW is only for their protection, others believe that their CCW can benefit others in certain circumstances. Who is right or wrong?

    Mr. Z may have felt he was acting in the best interest of himself, the community and society in general when he approached the kid. Certainly a chain of unfortunate events ended in the death of a child, however I'm not convinced that Mr. Z's actions rise to criminality beyond a reasonable doubt.
    Freedom Doc and stancehold like this.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

Page 3 of 56 FirstFirst 12345671353 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

george zimmerman height

,

george zimmerman height and weight

,
george zimmerman height weight
,
george zimmerman innocent
,

george zimmerman weight

,

trayvon martin height

,

trayvon martin height and weight

,
trayvon martin height weight
,

treyvon martin height

,

treyvon martin height and weight

,

treyvon martin height weight

,
zimmerman height and weight
Click on a term to search for related topics.