This is a discussion on Zimmerman: Self defense or murder? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; 911 Tapes Released in Trayvon Martin Killing...
I don't think it was murder, but some sort of homicide charge is definitely appropriate.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
NRA Life Member
I would say from the evidence if I was om a jury I would have to say there was not enough evidence to refute his claim of self defense. And I would hate myself for that because I know this guy was responsible for the kids death. I believe he confronted the kid, a scuffle ensued, and Zimmerman didn't bother fighting back. He was taking this time drawing his weapon. That is why he was in a physical disadvantage because he wasn't fighting back.
And it has made me rethink the immunity of civil suits for justified shootings. He was responsibility started when he ignored the advice of the dispatcher and left his vehicle. His tone and comment caught on tape aout "they get away " tells me he was going to do what ever it took stop the kid. Unless some new evidence comes up that is how I am thinking.
Maybe not murder, but an easy conviction on the charge of being stupid.
I'd rather be lucky than good any day
There's nothing that will change someone's moral outlook quicker than cash in large sums.
Majority rule only works if you're also considering individual rights. Because you can't have five wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper.
I was on the fence on this until hearing these 911 tapes. Zimmerman's voice and manner are strange and chilling, as are the cries for help ending with a gunshot. I wonder if Z was tested for drugs or alcohol? He needs to be charged and brought to trial so that all the facts can come out. Maybe he had a legitimate fear for his life. However, if he is allowed to simply walk free it will provide the anti-gunner with a powerful propaganda tool.
BTW, I was gratified to see the many thoughtful comments on a previous thread on this subject.
It appears all the good witnesses opted to remain indoors, which comes as no surprise whatsoever. What I do find surprising is seeing that everything I have ever been led to believe regarding escalation toward deadly force and disparity of force seems to be false, at least in this particular jurisdiction.
"If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
William T. Sherman
This situation would probably be a lot different if Zimmerman were LEO, but the fact of the matter is that he's not. He had no reason to chase the kid, and IMO he had an obligation to just play the part of a good witness.
"Shoot low boys, they're riding Shetland ponies." -Lewis Grizzard
Premeditated murder? - no. Manslaughter, in my opinion yes. Zimmerman put himself purposefully into a position that aggravated the situation. He followed the guy. Everything in these calls tells me Zimmerman did everything he could to create a confrontation. Regardless of my opinion or any others members opinion we should take a lesson learned here. Be a good witness, but don't go looking for a fight. A simple call to 911 in this instance was enough to get police responding, a cruiser patrolling the area probably would have been enough to make anybody with less than honorable intentions move along.
"Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.
waiting for it to come out on DVD
I am not taking a side on this issue, but I do want to point out that while the shouts for help may seem to be incriminating for Zimmerman, here is a case where a BG who was in the middle of an attempted rape, and was apparently planning to murder everyone in the house shouted "someone help me. Call the police. Someone call the police!" after he was shot by the GG...
College Student Shoots, Kills Home Invader | www.wsbtv.com
Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine
It's hard to say anything about this because everything I read seems to be biased or taken out of context. Strong opinions are formed on data that is misleading.
Fact: Zimmerman was not white
Fact: in his 911 call Zimmerman says Travyon was approaching with his hand in his waistband
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Yoda, I am, yes.
I listened to the tapes, and from what I heard, the one woman that called in tape 3 said she saw someone on top of a guy with a white tee shirt.
If Zimmerman was wearing a white tee shirt, it sounds as though the kid got the jump on him,,,could it have warranted drawing a pistol and firing???,,,,,,,
Its hard to imagine not being able to knee someone in the cojones, pummel their throat, and push them off of you, thereby at least giving you the opportunity to get up, and possibly get back from the situation, and then draw,,,,,,,
but I WASN'T THERE,,, I got nuthin'
I'm taking my chances in the middle of the road on this one, I think the odds are better!
Was george stupid for tailing the kid,,probably
How did the kid react when confronted,,,AND
How did George confront him?????
Too many what ifs and maybes here boys and girls.
I'd hate to be the DA.
I would rather die with good men than hide with cowards
If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy."
M&Pc .357sig, 2340Sigpro .357sig
Lots of questions, too few answers. The absence of eye witnesses and hearsay testimony will probably let the shooter walk. Trouble is, there is a lot of emotion as well as racial undertones which don't bode well for the shooter, the community or pro-gunners. Something doesn't smell right about the whole mess but it could easily get blown way out of control.
Just finished the audio files...
I agree we don't know what exactly happened, but there are a lot issues with what I heard...
1. Z should not have followed T
2. His comments and actions were wrong
3. Don't really know who was screaming... I am sure the families do.
I am going to leave it there, this is an unfortunate incident that could have been avoided, so Z is going to have to answer to that.
"The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."
-James Earl Jones