CPL renewal denied/mich.

This is a discussion on CPL renewal denied/mich. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; sounds like an atty. would be in my best interest along with another therapist. i look up and read articles from M.C.R.G.O., a member asked ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    sounds like an atty. would be in my best interest along with another therapist. i look up and read articles from M.C.R.G.O., a member asked in the ask the
    lawyer section "for the purpose of this law, what is a mental illness that can disqualify an applicant.
    A. "mental illness" means a substanial disorder og thought or mood that signnificantly impairs judgment, behavior, capacity to recognize reality, or ability
    to cope with the ordinary demands of life, and includes, but is not limited to clinical depression. (also read AG OPINION 7189 of mar. 2006.

    of which i exercise not one of these behaviors. the real issue is my therapist . social worker is her official title. well time to get a new sinse she is not
    even willing to look at the paper work i have put together. thanks again for all the advice. it is greatly apperciated...
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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array XD 45's Avatar
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    is your shrink a MD or PHD
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  4. #18
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    How did the shrink and the local gun board wind up having this conversation in the first place?
    Hopyard and paramedic70002 like this.
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  5. #19
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    The therapist being a social worker is not an MD and hence there can be no official medical diagnosis. It is only an opinion, as has been mentioned. I would appeal the denial. An attorney would certainly be worth looking into.

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    I thought you have to be declared mentally imcompadent or checked in to a mental facility. Maybe that's just Flordia
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by glock27mark View Post
    sounds like an atty. would be in my best interest along with another therapist. i look up and read articles from M.C.R.G.O., a member asked in the ask the
    lawyer section "for the purpose of this law, what is a mental illness that can disqualify an applicant.
    A. "mental illness" means a substanial disorder og thought or mood that signnificantly impairs judgment, behavior, capacity to recognize reality, or ability
    to cope with the ordinary demands of life, and includes, but is not limited to clinical depression. (also read AG OPINION 7189 of mar. 2006.

    of which i exercise not one of these behaviors. the real issue is my therapist . social worker is her official title. well time to get a new sinse she is not
    even willing to look at the paper work i have put together. thanks again for all the advice. it is greatly apperciated...
    Although there are some schools of social work which provide substantial training in clinical psychology and whose
    graduates are licensed to practice psychology, she is clearly not a Ph.D in Clinical Psychology; not a Psych D in clinical
    psychology, nor a psychiatrist.

    If she failed to send you to a physician for anti-depressant medication, her diagnosis
    is crap as is her treatment of you for that diagnosis.

    See a lawyer. It appears you may have been slandered by an incompetent.
    And btw, merely because you take anti-depressants does not mean you have a major problem.

    Go to a library and ask the librarian to help you locate a book DSMIV --Diagnostic and Statistical Manual

    Look at how they define a major depressive disorder and bring that description with you to your lawyer.
    snowcake and Eagleks like this.
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  8. #22
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    Great advice...A T T O R N E Y!
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by glock27mark View Post
    sounds like an atty. would be in my best interest along with another therapist. i look up and read articles from M.C.R.G.O., a member asked in the ask the
    lawyer section "for the purpose of this law, what is a mental illness that can disqualify an applicant.
    A. "mental illness" means a substanial disorder og thought or mood that signnificantly impairs judgment, behavior, capacity to recognize reality, or ability
    to cope with the ordinary demands of life, and includes, but is not limited to clinical depression. (also read AG OPINION 7189 of mar. 2006.

    of which i exercise not one of these behaviors. the real issue is my therapist . social worker is her official title. well time to get a new sinse she is not
    even willing to look at the paper work i have put together. thanks again for all the advice. it is greatly apperciated...
    Although there are some schools of social work which provide substantial training in clinical psychology and whose
    graduates are licensed to practice psychology, she is clearly not a Ph.D in Clinical Psychology; not a Psych D in clinical
    psychology, nor a psychiatrist.

    If she failed to send you to a physician for anti-depressant medication, her diagnosis
    is crap as is her treatment of you for that diagnosis. And it may still be crap even if you were
    prescribed anti-depressants. Your prescribing physician may have used a different diagnosis and not
    just been a parrot.

    See a lawyer.
    And btw, merely because you take anti-depressants does not mean you have a major problem.

    Go to a library and ask the librarian to help you locate a book DSMIV --Diagnostic and Statistical Manual

    Look at how they define a major depressive disorder (I think in Chapter 6) and bring that description with you to your lawyer.
    Be prepared to explain to your lawyer how you do not meet the listed diagnostic criteria and never have (assuming
    that is the truth).

    Good luck.
    Rock and Glock and phreddy like this.
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  10. #24
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    I agree with getting an attorney.

    Just out of curiosity, does she have a supervisor you could talk with? If so, that might be a possible way to go, thus avoiding the expense of a lawyer.
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  11. #25
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    I often hear a commercial from this law office Vincent, Michael J., P.C. during the airing of Armed America on a local radio show. Being that they advertise during this radio show, I'm assuming that they handle "gun cases", however, I have no idea if this firm can help you.

    It's worth a call. If anything, they may be able to steer you in the right (legal) direction.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by MotorCityGun; March 19th, 2012 at 01:16 PM.
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    Senior Member Array MotorCityGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bordercop View Post
    Almost everyone has some degree of depression now and then, that doesn't mean you're suicidal or even homocidal.
    Does this mean an all consuming urge to take out someone like Elton John? Sorry, sorry, couldn't help myself.
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  13. #27
    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glock27mark View Post

    "that being said, back in nov. 2004 i recieved an injury to my back at work and having be able to work and am now on disability. i was seeing a therapist to help me in my situation. (not being able to work) to make a long story short, she (therapist) had wrote in her report that i suffer from major depression. which is as false a statement can be. i enjoy life and all that goes with living a happy life."
    I guess I'm confused.....if you enjoy life and all that goes with it, why would you be seeing a therapist? Was this your idea or was this "counseling" a requirement that had to be satisfied in order to continue with disability or unemployment benefits?
    Not judging here, just saying...if you're telling one Government official that you can't work because you're depressed and then telling another group that you really aren't that depressed and you want your permit back, it could explain why the gun board is being unreasonable.
    Like I said...not inferring anything, just trying to make sense out of all this.
    MadMac likes this.
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorblade View Post
    I guess I'm confused.....if you enjoy life and all that goes with it, why would you be seeing a therapist? Was this your idea or was this "counseling" a requirement that had to be satisfied in order to continue with disability or unemployment benefits?
    Not judging here, just saying...if you're telling one Government official that you can't work because you're depressed and then telling another group that you really aren't that depressed and you want your permit back, it could explain why the gun board is being unreasonable.
    Like I said...not inferring anything, just trying to make sense out of all this.
    While I understand your point, it is entirely possible for someone to be too depressed to work but not depressed to the
    point where their civil rights (right to keep a gun) should be taken. Depression is a sprectrum disorder. It can run from
    the extremely mild and benign to a full blown psychosis in which you truly don't comprehend reality.

    None of that makes any difference in his case if the social worker took his words and wrote a diagnosis that
    misrepresented the nature of his ailment; and that might be provable if she did not get him referred
    for medication. Not that taking anti-depressants indicate someone is so depressed that they can't make reasonable
    judgments.

    I moderate a different board, one reason I'm here so much is I toggle between them, which provides some assistance to
    folks with a complex mind-body disorder that is of no consequence to anyone but themselves. You'd be truly amazed at how
    thoroughly dumb many so called psychologists are, and the same goes for physicians. I constantly have to advise people
    to fire their doctor. We've had people involuntarily committed on nothing more than misinterpretation of an off hand comment. Words always have more than one meaning. The dictionary definition; what the speaker meant; what the listener understood.

    P.S. Regarding the first sentence: There are many reasons people see a therapist which have nothing to do at all with enjoyment of life or depression. Social workers as his therapist, typically would do things like marriage and family counseling; maybe drug counseling; and would not be usually qualified to treat the disorder she diagnosed. I work with someone who holds a PhD in social work and has a private practice as well as a teaching position at a major University. So, I think I know a little about this stuff. Maybe too little, but enough to know something isn't right here.
    stancehold likes this.
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  15. #29
    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    Hopyard.....Good Point.
    2 weeks ago my Doc. prescribed Wellbutrin (anti-depressant) for me to help me quit smoking. I don't know why it works but it does.
    I would hate to lose my gun rights or even have to explain to some Government official why I was taking that medication.
    On the other hand.......whenever some wacko shoots up a mall or school everyone asks "Where were the signs, why was he allowed access to guns if he was being treated for an emotional issue, etc, etc."
    There is no right answer.
    To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
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  16. #30
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    On a side note related to this discussion. I know of several soldiers still serving and retired who will not seek treatment for any disorder whether it be possible PTSD or substance abuse because they fear that it may hurt them with firearm ownership and CCP issues. Sad when folks want to do the right thing and get treatment they feel it may harm them. That include marital counseling unless with a chaplain.
    varob likes this.

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