CPL renewal denied/mich.

This is a discussion on CPL renewal denied/mich. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Health care professionals can do what ever they want when it comes to forcing you to go for the 72 hour gig. They have all ...

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Thread: CPL renewal denied/mich.

  1. #61
    Senior Member Array High Altitude's Avatar
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    Health care professionals can do what ever they want when it comes to forcing you to go for the 72 hour gig. They have all the power, you have very little, if any, recourse. Once it happens and you lose your 2a rights, you are done.

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  3. #62
    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    well no real updates as for as things are going now. doing a little research here and there,also through some atty. general opinoins. see if i can find anything. i due plan on ccalling that atty. and the NRA. thanks again for all the advice...
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  4. #63
    Distinguished Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    Please stick with it, I really feel for you and a great disservice has been done. Best wishes and good luck.

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
    Health care professionals can do what ever they want when it comes to forcing you to go for the 72 hour gig. They have all the power, you have very little, if any, recourse. Once it happens and you lose your 2a rights, you are done.
    No, they can't do whatever they want. They must have a legitimate reason to order an emergency evaluation. And once that does happen, you do not just lose your rights. That involves a legal proceeding as I have mentioned earlier in this thread. That itself is like any other legal proceeding, and does not just happen off-the-cuff.

  6. #65
    Member Array MichiganCCW's Avatar
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    How did they(gun board) get this info from your doctor with patient confidentiality. It sounds like you misreprsented yourself. If you are not depressed do not tell people about it.

  7. #66
    Member Array stancehold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichiganCCW View Post
    How did they(gun board) get this info from your doctor with patient confidentiality.
    It seems Michigan is doing this routinely based on posts in this forum recently. I'm also wondering about how the state obtains the information? What are the specifics regarding what makes a person ineligible based upon psych history? Depression ... recent, past, any time since you were born? What about any other psych diagnosis? Do they all disqualify a person from 2A rights?

    This seems very discriminatory. I'll look up their application process and hopefully find their guidelines. But, what about any other disorder a person may have? How would a seizure disorder impact this? What about being diabetic? What about being hypertensive or a history of heart surgery? What about age?

    This seems to be selectively applied and I feel it has substantial grounds to be challenged.

    In our state there is an extensive question page included in the application, but it also includes questions with time specifications depending on the psych disorder type. However, anyone that has ever been depressed or had a prescription for an anti-depressant (a very high percentage of the US population) does not have substantial weight, imho, to have a CWP denied.

    What I find unfair and damaging about this is 1) many will not seek treatment that may be needed for fear of losing 2A rights, and 2) it seems discriminatory to those that have actually *received* help ... punishing them yet again for having a difficult time, (while ignoring those that have not sought treatment that may truly be a ticking time bomb and avoid professional assistance at all cost and deny the need) and 3) it perpetuates the outdated attitude of social shame for receiving any psych treatment of any sort.

    If one of the factors being addressed in this legislation is the *speculation* that anyone that has ever been depressed may possibly use a gun to attempt or commit suicide is completely discriminatory. If someone is truly suicidal there at least 1,000 other ways to accomplish the task that have nothing to do with firearms.

    Are the Michigan psych professionals voluntarily submitting data on each and every patient? If so, they need to expand to all physicians for all illnesses if they find this logical. I'm not suggesting this! I just see this as too selective and illogical.

  8. #67
    Member Array stancehold's Avatar
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    On the Michigan application HERE item #16 is:

    16. Not have a diagnosed mental illness at the time the application is made, regardless of whether he or she is receiving treatment.

    There are other psych references about being involuntarily hospitalized, found guilty of a crime by reason of insanity, and a bit more. Number 16 may have been the issue for you if your therapist never updated your status.

    I would think you could see another professional and get a new evaluation and appeal the denial.

    *The fact that your therapist refuses to talk to you about this issue signals a pressing need to find a new therapist, imho.

  9. #68
    Member Array RiverCity.45's Avatar
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    As to whether therapist can diagnose, if she is a mental health professional licensed by the state, then she can.
    Several states have restrictions on granting a concealed handgun licenses when certain mental illness is present. The license granting body does not have access to medical records, but applcants typically have to answer a question about their mental health and provide supporting documentation so the granting authority can make a determination.
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    Last edited by RiverCity.45; March 26th, 2012 at 12:01 PM.
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  10. #69
    Member Array PiperLambie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glock27mark View Post
    well no real updates as for as things are going now. doing a little research here and there,also through some atty. general opinoins. see if i can find anything. i due plan on ccalling that atty. and the NRA. thanks again for all the advice...
    Definitely stick with it! I agree with several others when they say see a qualified physician for a second opinion. My significant other is a psychiatric physician, meaning she went through four years of medical school to become a doctor before specializing in psychiatry. Knowing all that I know from her, I would never see a therapist, counselor, or otherwise that was not of these credentials, if it came down to it.

    Also, that legal angle is your best bet toward corrective action for this social worker, if speaking to a superior and other avenues have been exhausted. If you also, who knows how many other people were provided a "diagnosis" from someone who can only offer opinions- a diagnosis generally means that there is a treatment plan in place, whether chemically assisted or not, and social workers most definitely cannot offer you a full corrective treatment plan the same way a licensed physician can. It is a scary notion to fall victim to a professional's personal opinions if indeed her personal thoughts and beliefs played a role in denying you a reevaluation. Someone who does that is anything but professional.

    Of course this is all my personal opinion, but the doctor and lawyer are qualified to and will give you a professional one.

    Best of luck with everything!
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  11. #70
    Member Array bcvojak's Avatar
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    So to get a CCW, you have to give up your right to patient - doctor confidentiality?

    What's next. . Interrogate Priests to find out what was said by an applicant while in the confessional?
    Somewhere in the Pacific NW

  12. #71
    Ex Member Array Snatale42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichiganCCW View Post
    How did they(gun board) get this info from your doctor with patient confidentiality. It sounds like you misreprsented yourself. If you are not depressed do not tell people about it.
    You most likely sign it away with the application. Every State that issues permits has some line in there to the effect of Checking Mental Heath, why are you surprised one actually looked into it?

  13. #72
    Ex Member Array Snatale42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Altitude View Post
    Health care professionals can do what ever they want when it comes to forcing you to go for the 72 hour gig. They have all the power, you have very little, if any, recourse. Once it happens and you lose your 2a rights, you are done.
    People that are convicted and loose their 2a rights under certain circumstances can reapply to have them restored, not cheap, but can be done. A BS quacks handwork can certainly be undone.

  14. #73
    Member Array aboogie808's Avatar
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    Talk to a lawyer.

  15. #74
    Distinguished Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    OP can you give us an update on where this issue resides now?

  16. #75
    Member Array John Luttrel's Avatar
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    Lawyer up my friend, even criminals have their day in court before they lose their gun rights.
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