CPL renewal denied/mich.

CPL renewal denied/mich.

This is a discussion on CPL renewal denied/mich. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; have some news i'd like to share and get of my chest. has to do with the deniel of my CPL renewal. i first applied ...

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Thread: CPL renewal denied/mich.

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    CPL renewal denied/mich.

    have some news i'd like to share and get of my chest. has to do with the deniel of my CPL renewal. i first applied for my CPL back in
    july of 2006. took my mich. CPL course as required under mich law. went in front of the gun board on aug. 25. went home with my
    CPL one happy camper. the expiration date was nov. 2010. i started to process of renewal for my license alittle late (may 2011) and
    applied for renewal in june 2011. (which has no bering on approval or denieal.

    that being said, back in nov. 2004 i recieved an injury to my back at work and having be able to work and am now on disability. i was
    seeing a therapist to help me in my situation. (not being able to work) to make a long story short, she (therapist) had wrote in her
    report that i suffer from major depression. which is as false a statement can be. i enjoy life and all that goes with living a happy life.

    well i'm sure that you all can understand how the gun board would see this. included in the letter from the gun board was their reason
    for denieal was "you have a diagnosed mental illness". now i have talked to the chairman of the gun board on a couple occasions and
    he had mentioned that if i could get the diagnosis changed that the board would reconsider the approvral of my CPL.
    The bummer of it all is i put together paperwork concering laws about michigan CPL rules and regulations and the therapist would not
    even listen to me or read the paper work i have put together. sorry so long but am wondering if anyone has any advice or been
    in a goofy predicament such as this. thank you in advance for any advice...
    (SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
    the world coming too"

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    U.S. ARMY FT.SILL, OKLA.


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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Wow, thats does stink...At this point I would be looking for a new therapist for a new evaluation. I would also be careful that the county doesnt step in and try to take your guns. They have been known to do this. Either way I would not let this sit.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Lawyer experienced in your states gun laws

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    Senior Member Array ntkb's Avatar
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    See different doctor after all it’s only an opinion.

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    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    In my case I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety. I was given medication and treatment for both, therefore there is no issue. Then again PA and MI laws are completely different regarding carry. If you can prove without a doubt see if you can get some written statement from your doctor saying you've received treatment and are now fine. That or see if he can retract it all together. It's worth a shot, then go from there with the board.

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    Member Array tactilame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Wow, thats does stink...At this point I would be looking for a new therapist for a new evaluation. I would also be careful that the county doesnt step in and try to take your guns. They have been known to do this. Either way I would not let this sit.
    Agree. I think a new therapist should be in order. Sorry to hear about your situation, best of luck to you getting your renewal.
    "Shoot low boys, they're riding Shetland ponies." -Lewis Grizzard

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    Member Array stancehold's Avatar
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    Wow, this really doesn't make much sense to me. How can denying your permit be reasoned? If they think there is a possibility of suicidal ideation, how does denying a permit keep a person from access to firearms? What type of records did your gun board access and what was the date of those records? I would ask to see the copies of all your records that were kept by the therapist. Is there a number of years in your state's law that they can go back in medical records before it is no longer pertinent? I would also seek a new therapist for a new evaluation and appeal the gun board's decision. The therapist that diagnosed this issue can be held liable for not updating your current condition and refusing to speak about the issue.

    Best wishes and good luck with getting things corrected quickly.

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    Member Array snowcake's Avatar
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    If your situation has changed for the better regarding your job and injury, see if your therapist will reevaluate your diagnosis. There is such a thing as situational depression that solely has to do with your current hardships and can reverse once your life circumstances improve. You should not be branded with this diagnosis for life if it is not an ongoing struggle for you (and it sounds like it's not.) If there is no ongoing pattern, your therapist (or new therapist) should be able to see this and understand that you are in a better place emotionally and not a threat to yourself or others. *removes psychologist hat*

    I hope it works out for you.

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    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    thanks for the responces. i'm definitly looking for a new therapist. funny thing of it was i looked up difintions of major depression and they listed quite
    a few things (symptoms) and i have not one of them. while i have'nt giving up yet. i have yet begune to fight. (lol) i can understand the gun boards
    ruling just because of the nut jobs that are out there. just that a trained therapist would make a ruling that is incorrect and not willing to change it.

    well thanks again for your advice. can wait for the day i get my cpl renewed. just a matter of time. i'll even take the trip through wallyworld again. LOL
    TAKE CARE ALL AND STAY SAFE...
    (SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
    the world coming too"

    NRA LIFE MEMBER

    U.S. ARMY FT.SILL, OKLA.

  10. #10
    sgb
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    VIP Member Array sgb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Lawyer experienced in your states gun laws
    This, and my first question "Is this therapist qualified to diagnose clinical depression?"
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

    Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition

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    Member Array tactilame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glock27mark View Post
    funny thing of it was i looked up difintions of major depression and they listed quite
    a few things (symptoms) and i have not one of them.
    I think a lot of therapists (ESPECIALLY psychiatrists) are often too quick to make a diagnosis. These days it seems like people don't want to accept responsibility for anything, so they expect a therapist to give them some sort of diagnosis. It's a lot easier to go "well, I'm broke right now, I can't get a job, I haven't been eating right or staying in shape -- that's right, it's DEPRESSIONS fault! I can't concentrate either, but it's probably not the lack of sleep I've been getting or the fact I've been drinking more often, it must be ADD! That's right!"

    I think that these mental health issues are very much real, but I also think they're often over-diagnosed. By the way, I'm not referring to you with the above critique, I'm just saying I'm sure a lot of people in the mental health profession have clients who ARE like that. I'm sure once you find a good therapist who actually engages with their clients, you'll turn out a-okay and get this whole thing sorted out.
    "Shoot low boys, they're riding Shetland ponies." -Lewis Grizzard

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    Distinguished Member Array Elk Hunter's Avatar
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    I hope you can get this worked out. Thanks for the post gives us all food for thought.

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    I think there is quite a lot wrong with what is going on regarding your situation. Of course assuming you've
    stated all the relevant stuff forthrightly.

    I am assuming you were not hospitalized for that depression against your will? In most states, that is
    pretty much what has to happen to not get a license. But even if the law in MI is different, there are significant issues about what she wrote in her notes. Did you understand your diagnosis at the time to be a major depressive episode? Is this all a big surprise?

    Is your therapist a physician or a psychologist. If the latter, did she refer you to a physician for anti-depression medication? For hospitalization?

    What I am driving at is a possible disparity between the alleged diagnosis in her notes and your actual treatment; something that would drive a stake through the believability of the diagnosis.

    If she failed to refer you to a physician for medical treatment then her diagnosis simply can not stand as she
    had no real conviction behind it as evidenced by the fact that she did not get you appropriate medical treatment; in short her cred goes out the window.

    So, what is she? M.D. D.O. (Physician, not an optometrist); or psychologist. If the latter, what are her
    qualifications? The licensing of psychologists and related "therapists" is often a fairly sloppy mess and varies a great
    deal amongst the states. Some are pretty good and require rigorous education and training while others will let someone with a correspondence school diploma and fifty bucks practice. (Don't take that literally, I'm exaggerating but the point is valid nonetheless.)

    If you went out to purchase a gun, would you pass the NICS check? (I don't mean in the sense that
    maybe Uncle doesn't have a key piece of information. I mean if Uncle had the truth, would you pass?) If yes,
    then I think she and MI are out of line.

    Don't answer here if inappropriate to do so. Have you ever tried to off yourself? Would she have had any
    notes in your record which were truthful that you told her you tried to off yourself? (Not the same as I thought about doing it?)

    Well you had guns in your possession back then and certainly the means to off yourself, so you couldn't have really
    been depressed to the point where you were a danger to yourself; that wouldn't seem to make sense, now would that?

    You need a lawyer for three related but distinct issues: 1) to get your license 2) to determine if she committed
    malpractice; 3) to determine if she slandered you by providing the state with false information.

    No one but a MI attorney can help you sort all that out.

    Editorial comment: This is why I do not like the idea of computerized medical record keeping. Docs put all sorts of
    crap down on their notes and on their billing codes to get a few extra bucks from insurance companies or to make
    repayment go more quickly. Sometimes these exaggerations can harm you in various ways; like if another doc sees the
    records and then can't objectively and independently evaluate you. Or, in this case the diagnosis ends up in a public
    record and it is a wrong diagnosis.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    New Member Array bordercop's Avatar
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    Your sig line says that you're an NRA member. Contact your local coordinator. They can help you with legal advice/assistance in straightening this out. Have some patience, buddy, you're in it for a long haul.

    As a side story, one of my coworkers was deemed a "suicide risk" by some overbearing Nurse's assistant when all he went in for was to renew his prescription. Even though he was immediately cleared by the doc, his "risk" was reported, and he almost lost his job over it. As it was, he lost out on some pay and had to work in restricted duties without his firearm for over half a year. What I find ironic about all of this, is that his was also treatment for a back injury.

    Almost everyone has some degree of depression now and then, that doesn't mean you're suicidal or even homocidal.

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    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    I sounds like they're using the system against you. Its time to have a lawyer use the system against them.

    you need an advocate with legal knowledge to speak for you
    Hopyard, sgb, hogdaddy and 2 others like this.
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