Trayvon/Zimmerman Incident: FL CWP Holders - know the Law.

This is a discussion on Trayvon/Zimmerman Incident: FL CWP Holders - know the Law. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is not my opinion on Murder vs. SD. I started a new thread because I figured this would just get buried, hope that's OK ...

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Thread: Trayvon/Zimmerman Incident: FL CWP Holders - know the Law.

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    Member Array macg19's Avatar
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    Trayvon/Zimmerman Incident: FL CWP Holders - know the Law.

    This is not my opinion on Murder vs. SD.

    I started a new thread because I figured this would just get buried, hope that's OK moderators, if not NP, delete delete.

    I scanned all the posts and while I agree a lot of info is missing/unknown and subject to interpretation and opinion, I thought I would reiterate FL law as to when you can use a deadly weapon in self defense as it relates to this incident.

    We all really must know and understand State and Federal laws and either Zimmerman did not (which makes him irresponsible and may explain his poor judgement), or he did not care (which makes him irresponsible and possibly a vigilante).

    In FL while there is no duty to retreat, you cannot pursue someone and shoot them even if you have just seen them commit a forcible felony because...

    the only time deadly force is justified is to PREVENT a forcible felony or IMMINENT death or great bodily harm to yourself or another.

    So, if he gets indited he must convince a jury that he REASONABLY BELIEVED his life was in IMMINENT danger (which would have been plausible if he was seriously outsized or there were multiple combatants AND he was initially threatened instead of choosing to follow Trayvon) OR that he saw the kid was about to commit a serious felony that he was justified in preventing (to which there is no evidence).

    The other "reasonableness" factor in this case is that you have a duty to avoid situations where a reasonable person would know there is a likelihood of being harmed or killed, and therefore avoid having to use deadly force in self defense.

    Not understanding this well will get you broke and/or in jail, and Florida has mandatory jail terms for firearms offenses so even if there is sympathy from the jury or the judge, those sentences must be imposed.
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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array sigs's Avatar
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    Agreed. The law is being misrepresented by the media, even some of the best of the media as a "shoot first, ask questions later" law. It is not.

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    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    Media won't be satisfied untill they create IMO...a Civil Unrest situation down there......let the law handle it.
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    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    I really despise the media.

    They are very incorrectly painting that law, in an effort to sway leaders to rescind our Castle Doctrine. This case needs to play out with the facts, and if in the end the facts show that this guy had absolutely no business shooting that kid then he should be found guilty and punished accordingly. Then the pro-gun folks can come out in support of justice being served, and work to correct the misconceptions.
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    Member Array nlghthawk's Avatar
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    I am glad someone is analyzing this a little more. I always felt like the laws in Florida were a little better than I think they are being given credit for. Following someone while carrying doesn't seem to be inviting a confrontation. It seems like being a good witness. Does he have a duty to avoid a conflict when the conflict confronts him? Does there have to be a weapon or just the belief that a weapon is present....regardless if its a firearm? Would a flashlight be a weapon if someone was hitting you in the head?

    I listened to the 911 tape and he felt like the person was reaching into his waste and, he was asked if he was following the person and the operator told him to stop and it sounded like he complied. If the kid turned around and started a physical altercation with someone who suspects this person may have a weapon and then gets hit in the head in the dark by something he can't identify it sounds like defense to me. I give law enforcement a lot of latitude for thinking they were in a life or death situation....even if it turns out to be wrong in hindsite. You have a split second to decide if you are about to die and make the decision to stop the threat. There is some question about if this "kid" began to assault this man. If he is guilty for being a witness because he was carrying only, that seems like a BAD law and could negate "stand your ground".

    I lived in Fla for 8 years and Ihave been watching the persecution in the court of public opinion by talking heads living in NYC and California! The media needs to backup and let the legal process work.

    My 2 cents
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlghthawk View Post
    I am glad someone is analyzing this a little more. I always felt like the laws in Florida were a little better than I think they are being given credit for. Following someone while carrying doesn't seem to be inviting a confrontation. It seems like being a good witness. Does he have a duty to avoid a conflict when the conflict confronts him? Does there have to be a weapon or just the belief that a weapon is present....regardless if its a firearm? Would a flashlight be a weapon if someone was hitting you in the head?

    I listened to the 911 tape and he felt like the person was reaching into his waste and, he was asked if he was following the person and the operator told him to stop and it sounded like he complied. If the kid turned around and started a physical altercation with someone who suspects this person may have a weapon and then gets hit in the head in the dark by something he can't identify it sounds like defense to me. I give law enforcement a lot of latitude for thinking they were in a life or death situation....even if it turns out to be wrong in hindsite. You have a split second to decide if you are about to die and make the decision to stop the threat. There is some question about if this "kid" began to assault this man. If he is guilty for being a witness because he was carrying only, that seems like a BAD law and could negate "stand your ground".

    I lived in Fla for 8 years and Ihave been watching the persecution in the court of public opinion by talking heads living in NYC and California! The media needs to backup and let the legal process work.

    My 2 cents
    I bet T was holding up his pants. Not reaching into them.
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    Very well stated and presented.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xXxplosive View Post
    Media won't be satisfied untill they create IMO...a Civil Unrest situation down there......let the law handle it.
    There is no fact-checking nor any credibility left in today's journalism. The evening news is little more than a poorly scripted attempt at a 'reality tv' show. I'm not aware of a single network that doesn't spew pulp media garbage.

    There is an opportunity here for some media outlet to make a name for themselves to ethically report the news.
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    Ethically.........or.............Ethnically....... .they are very close indeed.

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    Senior Member Array mano3's Avatar
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    I agree that the media is supercharging this story. Every news story I've heard emphasizes that Trayvon was a black teenager and the photo they keep using is him as a young boy. Today on NPR, not only did they use 'black teenager', but they called Zimmerman a 'white-Hispanic'. I've never heard that term before...

    It's almost like the media is hoping for a race riot in Florida over this case...
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    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    Here they go............on Fox now.....MK is discussing how this may be racially motivated.
    Saw this comming.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    There is no fact-checking nor any credibility left in today's journalism. The evening news is little more than a poorly scripted attempt at a 'reality tv' show. I'm not aware of a single network that doesn't spew pulp media garbage.

    There is an opportunity here for some media outlet to make a name for themselves to ethically report the news.
    WHEC724 - there is no journalism left in today's media.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXxplosive View Post
    Here they go............on Fox now.....MK is discussing how this may be racially motivated.
    Saw this comming.......
    Kind of hard to expect it to go any other way when:

    1. they need ratings and
    2. Z used at least 1 racial slur.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mano3 View Post
    It's almost like the media is hoping for a race riot in Florida over this case...
    You think they are trying to confine it to FL?
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    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    I'm afraid it's going to be our "Sand Your Ground Law" that ends up being the casualty here rather than the "Castle Doctrine"
    That would be a terrible shame, because "Stand Your Ground" contains the immunity clause from civil litigation.
    It is good law.

    The media already portrays Floridians as a bunch of gun toting yahoos. They have for years.
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