Suing a state that does not issue you a permit

Suing a state that does not issue you a permit

This is a discussion on Suing a state that does not issue you a permit within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Has anyone ever heard of an individual suing a state that refused them a permit or license to carry a concealed weapon? I am in ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array ampinf's Avatar
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    Suing a state that does not issue you a permit

    Has anyone ever heard of an individual suing a state that refused them a permit or license to carry a concealed weapon?


    I am in the process (thinking about) applying for permit in my surrounding states. From Connecticut those would be MA, RI, NY/NYC. MA and NY should be a problem to obtain but NYC and RI are need based.

    I was wondering if they deny me and I still visit that city or state would there be grounds for me (or anyone) to sue them if anything were to happen in which could have possibly be averted by me having a weapon.

    Does anyone want to speculate? Or does anyone have any knowledge of similar events?


  2. #2
    New Member Array bogidu's Avatar
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    Funny you should ask

    Quote Originally Posted by ampinf View Post
    Has anyone ever heard of an individual suing a state that refused them a permit or license to carry a concealed weapon?
    I just caught this post this morning. Colo. Gun Law Going Before Federal Appeals Court

    It article seems to indicate that's what the suit is about, however the conversation following it makes me wonder.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
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    Please add NJ to your list.
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  4. #4
    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ampinf View Post
    Has anyone ever heard of an individual suing a state that refused them a permit or license to carry a concealed weapon?


    I am in the process (thinking about) applying for permit in my surrounding states. From Connecticut those would be MA, RI, NY/NYC. MA and NY should be a problem to obtain but NYC and RI are need based.

    I was wondering if they deny me and I still visit that city or state would there be grounds for me (or anyone) to sue them if anything were to happen in which could have possibly be averted by me having a weapon.

    Does anyone want to speculate? Or does anyone have any knowledge of similar events?

    You can sue anybody for anything but will you win ? I think the first problem that you would have is residency in the state that you where going to sue. You could apply and get turned down for NYC carry but they would issue you a resident permit. Pay the fees and wait the 6 months and barring any felonies or drug convections you would get approved.
    You do not know, what you do not know, until you realize that you do not know it

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
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    Peruta vs. County of San Diego

    Here is data on the case Peruta vs. County of San Diego (California).

    Peruta v. County of San Diego - Calguns Foundation Wiki

    And here is a description of the case:

    Peruta v. County of San Diego is a Second Amendment case challenging the concealed carry license issuing policies in San Diego County. This case was started when Ed Peruta applied for his conceal carry license and was subsequently denied. He wished to carry for defense of self and family.
    Ed then started the internal appeals process with the license division for the sheriff’s office. He painstakingly exhausted all administrative options for appealing the denial of his concealed carry license. After which Ed hired an attorney and filed a civil rights case in federal court. Both the County of San Diego, and Sheriff Gore himself are defendants in this case. The lawsuit was later amended and added several other plaintiffs including the CRPA Foundation which helped strengthen the case for the general public.
    This case was lost in U.S. District Court on December 12, 2010. On December 14, 2010 and a Notice to Appeal has been electronically filed in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th circuit.
    Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the Peoples' Liberty's Teeth." - George Washington

  6. #6
    New Member Array bikerdan's Avatar
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    Victory For The Constitution in Maryland

    We just received word that the United States District Court for the District of Maryland has granted a motion for summary judgement for plaintiff Ray Woollard in the Woollard v. Sheridan case that challenged the good and substantial requirement for issuance of a permit to carry a handgun.

    A copy of the opinion can be found here.
    http://marylandshallissue.org/share/...rd_Opinion.pdf
    Here are some important excerpts from the opinion:

    "Because the ―good and substantial reason requirement is not reasonably adapted to a substantial government interest, the Court finds this portion of the Maryland law to be unconstitutional. Woollard is entitled to summary judgment. "

    "A law that burdens the exercise of an enumerated constitutional right by simply making that right more difficult to exercise cannot be considered ―reasonably adapted‖ to a government interest, no matter how substantial that interest may be. Maryland‘s goal of ―minimizing the proliferation of handguns among those who do not have a demonstrated need for them,‖ id. at 40, is not a permissible method of preventing crime or ensuring public safety; it burdens the right too broadly. "

    "At bottom, this case rests on a simple proposition: If the Government wishes to burden a right guaranteed by the Constitution, it may do so provided that it can show a satisfactory justification and a sufficiently adapted method. The showing, however, is always the Government‘s to make. A citizen may not be required to offer a good and substantial reason why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs."

  7. #7
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    You can sue, but a snowball in you know where probably stands a better chance.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

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  8. #8
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    Interesting post Bikerdan. Thanks.

    I'm having a bit of a hard time understanding the situation in post 1, or I should say the intention desire and intention
    expressed in post 1.

    Moreover, and worse, there are some complexities about whether someone in state B can sue State A or a resident of State A can sue State A.
    The 11th amendment and sovereign immunity both come into play in ways that are beyond the comprehension
    of mere mortal non-constitutional law specialists. Our Supremes just issued a ruling (a few days back)
    on a non-gun case that made no sense to me as a matter of fundamental fairness, or even as a matter of
    plain reading of the text; but there it was and the citizen-plaintiff lost and was refused his ability (I guess I can't use
    the word right) to sue because he lacked the right to sue on constitutional grounds. (That's the best I could
    comprehend of what occurred from the newsy story... which means I might actually have no idea what really
    happened.)

    The take home lesson would be that if you want to sue you need to make sure you pick a lawyer who will familiarize
    himself with the 11th amendment issues and the sovereign immunity issue.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  9. #9
    Member Array mongovb's Avatar
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    I wonder if someone could go after some of these states under US Title 42 section 1983? It basically allows for civil action against anyone who causes a deprivation of rights we are entitled to under the Constitution. Might be worth a look.

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    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
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    Rather than listening to a bunch of arm-chair internet law gurus, I would pay for a consultation with a lawyer that specializes in 2nd amendment cases in the state you want to pursue.

    Frankly, without the ability to represent you in court, our word is worthless in this matter.
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
    - Roy Batty

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 357and40 View Post
    Rather than listening to a bunch of arm-chair internet law gurus, I would pay for a consultation with a lawyer that specializes in 2nd amendment cases in the state you want to pursue.

    Frankly, without the ability to represent you in court, our word is worthless in this matter.
    You mean to tell me that all of the advice coming from this forum is NOT from Constitutional lawyers? From the way some folks post you would think they had some insight that the Supreme Court does not

  12. #12
    Member Array mongovb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    You mean to tell me that all of the advice coming from this forum is NOT from Constitutional lawyers? From the way some folks post you would think they had some insight that the Supreme Court does not
    Nobody is claiming to be a lawyer. There is nothing wrong with doing your own research and trying to educate yourself before you go and talk to a lawyer. Some lawyers rely heavily on their paralegals to do the leg work and they show up to argue the case. The OP is just asking people to speculate and probably not looking for smart ass comments. Some of us are simply trying to be helpful to one another.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mongovb View Post
    Nobody is claiming to be a lawyer. There is nothing wrong with doing your own research and trying to educate yourself before you go and talk to a lawyer. Some lawyers rely heavily on their paralegals to do the leg work and they show up to argue the case. The OP is just asking people to speculate and probably not looking for smart ass comments. Some of us are simply trying to be helpful to one another.
    Lighten up Francis. It was a joke.

  14. #14
    Member Array mongovb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Lighten up Francis. It was a joke.
    The name is Psycho.

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array Elk Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogidu View Post
    I just caught this post this morning. Colo. Gun Law Going Before Federal Appeals Court

    It article seems to indicate that's what the suit is about, however the conversation following it makes me wonder.
    Once I finally got to the article in the local Colorado press, I was once again disappointed in the reporting. The article says "Colorado is one of 23 states that doesn't honor a concealed weapons permit from other states." This is not true Colorado recognizes permits from many states, but you have to be a resident of the state the permit is issued. Colorado does not recognize permits issued to non-residents.

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