SA Failed - The Aftermath
This is a discussion on SA Failed - The Aftermath within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Not sure how long-winded or digressive this will go, it's mainly an attempt to share a story about a real-life experience by me, a few ...
March 24th, 2012 02:19 PM
SA Failed - The Aftermath
Not sure how long-winded or digressive this will go, it's mainly an attempt to share a story about a real-life experience by me, a few weeks ago, for an interesting read if nothing else.
I'm 24 and live with my wife and almost three year-old daughter. We live in a trailer park, in the very first house next to a somewhat traveled road in our smallll (10k pop.) town. Between the hours of 11 and 12 at night on a Saturday I still cannot count the number of cars that drive by on two hands. We live just outside the city limits.
Was a Thursday night, I got out of work late, around 8 or 830. Wife was shopping one town over so I met her at Target to help out. We both left there and drove home (separate cars). I beat her home and pulled into my driveway on the far side. It's three cars wide. My F150 is in the middle so I cannot see the other side. I was fiddling with the radio until she pulled in. When she got there I hopped out and went to the other side of the driveway to help unload her car. She was on the other side of the car gettin' the kid out and I finished unloading the cargo area (it's a wagon) and believe I was getting the last few items from the rear seat behind the drivers when someone approached me quickly from behind and made their way to being in front of me, only inches away, before I had time to react in any form. To this day I cannot tell you which direction he came from.
I don't recall all of the fine details but by this time I think my wife and daughter were crossing the front of the car going towards the house. Having a stranger approach in dark conditions in my own driveway with my family there put me in high alert instantly. This man introduces himself by telling me I need to give him a ride to a local bar downtown. He's very intoxicated already as told by his smell, speech, and non-perfect control of body movements. I didn't need to tell them to go inside, they got the point. My wife did make the mistake of coming back outside though, especially since she came unarmed (we didn't really own anything more then kitchen knifes at this point anyhow) but she could of watched safely from the front window inside and had been relatively more safe inside the locked structure then outside.
I was a bit worried, not sure how this would play out. I had no formal training on these sort of situations so I took it slow as not to provoke him. I told him right off the bat I was unwilling to drive him downtown as it had appeared he was not fit to go to the bar. He told me he had a "buttload of cash". I still refused, he offered me 10$, met again by my refusal. He mentioned something about two guys getting into a fight and I asked if he was their friend or something and his reply was "Hell no! I'm not a youngster like that, I'm 28!". I instinctively started putting my hands in all of my pockets trying to find the knife I carry everyday. Not for SD but for a utility tool. It would still work as a SD in this situation though. To my horror I had left it, and my cell phone, in my car, which was on the other side of the F150 and what felt like miles away at this point. He was so drunk he didn't notice my unusual behavior as anything.
He was very persistent and mumbled weird things about cats or something. I was still unsure if he was armed in any way at this point. We talked for a few moments more and all of a sudden he produced some homemade bladed weapon very quickly. It appeared to be a mini hatchet a few inches long attached to some handle and taped with electrical tape. It was dark so I couldn't tell if it was sharp or even a worthwhile weapon. I hit peak alert instantly and thought about punching him in the face. He appeared so drunk and wobbly I assumed he'd either pass out or at least fall over giving me a chance to run towards my house. For whatever reason I didn't. He turned out to be less aggressive, but he told me I needed to take this knife from him. I don't know where he got it from and was unwilling to touch it. He finally grabbed one of my hands and tried to put it in my hand but I pulled away.
Once again I almost let my fear take over and go with a knee jerk reaction but for whatever reason, stayed calm. I did know I could take him, despite being unarmed. I had at least 80lbs on the guy, and he was intoxicated. Worse case is I get cut a few times but this guy isn't far from being unable to control himself anyhow.
I finally guess that my best odds are to just be very agreeable. So I tell him to wait here as I need to take my groceries inside. I told him I'd give him a ride, for free, as soon as I was done. He seemed happy and leaned against the drivers fender while I briskly went inside, told the wife on the porch to go inside and lock the door, and followed her.
We tried to called the non-emergency dispatch # for the PD but couldn't find it. I settled for 911 and told them to come get this guy before he hurts someone. Took the police about 10-12 mins to arrive. During this time the drunk started walking towards my door but only made it about five feet through my front yard before passing out and falling face first into the yard, where he remained until authorities arrived. I re-called 911 and told them he appeared unconscious from inside my house but wasn't willing to go check on him because I wasn't sure if he was still armed or not. For all I knew he was dead out there. She escalated my call or whatever and the Sheriff and Meds arrived much quicker.
I watched from inside, the police woke him up and when asked what he was doing just said he must of fell asleep. He refused medical attention but was loaded up in the Sheriffs rig, not he city PD so I assume he was taken to county jail for the night to sober up, I'm unsure. Then everyone left my yard and they didn't even need to knock on my door or talk to me. I was happy.
Now, before all this I had wanted to buy a gun for CC EDC. For a couple years actually, I had been interested. I had even gotten my CWP in the mail just a few days prior to this event. I had planned to get my first CCW in a few weeks when my brother in law paid me for the purchase of the before mentioned F150. I decided not to wait though, and bought my ccw the next day during lunch break. I had already known what I was after because I spent time with family/friends, shot some things, and done my research. If this happened a few weeks later, and I had been armed, I do not think much would of changed. I didn't perceive him as a major threat due to his size and intoxication level. Maybe I was being stupid thinking that. I was still a bit scared because even if I only got cut a few times, hell no one wants that. Having a ccw at this time maybe would not have changed how it all went but I'd of felt a lot more cool and collected just knowing, if this takes a crazy turn for the worse, I've still got a Plan B. Being more cool during the incident would lead to better and smarter decisions and reactions as well. I do think some formal training is in order for me now though. :)
But in the aftermath, things are different. I've reconsidered home safety. I've lived here for three years and never thought a bit about this stuff. After going onto my front porch, but before you enter my home, you walk through a "mud room". It's about 8'x25'. The door to this does not lock. It also affords you all the privacy you'd need while breaking into my front door to actually enter my house. In hindsight, it also contains all of the hand tools, power tools,and even a chain saw you could use to do so. You could also just steal all of this stuff, as well as all the meat in my upright freezer (I've seen this on the news, I know better).
My side porch boarders the main road, and that entry door is hollow with only of those basic "handle locks". I occasionally break in through this door using a flathead screwdriver from the unlock-able mudroom when I've accidentally locked myself out of my house. But even without, it is hollow, I'm sure even my wife could kick it in.
In the past late at night the sound of my neighbors cat playing on either of our porches would startle my wife while laying in bed, but I'd tell her to go to sleep as it's probably just a cat. This reaction was most likely due to the fact that subconsciously I knew I didn't have anything more to use to deal with a threat than the knives in my own kitchen. And those, in all fairness, are closer to someone who kicks in my front door than myself. Now with a loaded pistol in a quick access safe beside the bed I find myself listening more intently to these things at night. There is ALWAYS a ton of car door noises at night because a neighbor has teens with a lot of visitors but I'm always listening to discern it's not someone opening the door to my mudroom instead. It didn't used to be this way.
On the bright side, thinking about this kind of stuff is healthy, better to be aware so you can address issues. Not sure how much will change because we are diligently saving to buy a house next spring. So in soon selling this place I do not want to waste too much money. I do plan on being a security freak after we move, however.
When your SA fails and you go roughly through something, it effects quite a bit. Some good, some bad.
Felt like sharing.
March 24th, 2012 02:36 PM
Good for you. Keep informed, educated, stay safe.
After years of tossing CCW around it wasn't until my daughter and I felt threatened while traveling and as soon as we got home I informed my husband I was obtaining my CCW whether he was or not. We now enjoy a hobby together. Both our kids are well informed and educated too. We'll see what happens when they become of age to obtain their CCW.
March 24th, 2012 02:51 PM
It is very good to hear all is ok and sometimes the best lessons in life are the hardest learned. Having worked in the emergency services field for many years, i can tell you with absolute certainty do not underestimate the threat from someone who appears intoxicated or stoned. Some people can be barely able to stand but can still lash out with the quickness of a cat when provoked.
I understand that you want to move soon but there are some things you can do fairly cheaply like putting a switch on your porch door that is hooked to a bell or buzzer. If the door opens, it automatically goes off. Think outside of the box and you'll see things that can be done cheaply.
Get your permit, find a weapon that suits you and your needs, and practice, practice, practice. If you can find a local self defense class take it. Teach your wife the same way.
"Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands. " Col. Jeff Cooper
Proud member NRA, VCDL, USPSA, IDPA & DADD ( if you have daughters, you understand )
March 24th, 2012 03:08 PM
True. Thinking on it, I did underestimate him. The fact he was able to approach so fast and silently should of said something. My wife later admitted she didn't see him coming either. In her defense she was fussing with the carseat and child and all I had to focus on was some bags.
Originally Posted by Honk
I've looked into some of these things, I guess. Door alarms. Also seen a doormat that when stepped on can remotely set off an alarm you might leave in your bedroom or something. I'll get something more before moving, for sure. I would be devastated for something bad to happen I could of been better prepared but was not because I wanted to save a few dollars before moving.
Originally Posted by Honk
Check. Check. Check. I got a M&P9c for edc. I've put 400 through it so far and it's getting more and more comfortable. I'll practice as often as budget allows! As for the wife, I've told her I want her to go sometime and become familiar with at least the basic operation and safe use of such. Wouldn't help anyone if we are in the middle of nowhere, have a weapon, need to use it and for whatever reason I'm unable. God forbid I leave this world at an early time it's her job to take care of them both!
Originally Posted by Honk
Thanks for your kind advice.
March 24th, 2012 03:12 PM
Glad to see everything worked out well for you. That is a scary situation to be in. Hopefully, even when you make your special purchase and are carrying a defensive unit, you stay as level headed as you were in that situation. I hope you never have to use that gun in that manner. Just to be on the safe side.....Practice, practice and practice some more. Stay safe.
March 24th, 2012 03:12 PM
Hey buddy, Welcome Aboard, and thanks for the excellent post.
Both a scary situation and a learning experience as well. You've come to the right place if you wish to learn more about security, defending your life and anything you wish to know about carrying a concealed weapon.
Trust me, there is a wealth of invaluable information within these pages and you'll be amazed at just how many people feel the exact same way you do.
I hope you find a new home here and a new place to hang out. It could literally help save your life, or that of your loved ones.
As you read and learn here, you'll quickly find out that drunks can be very dangerous. Don't ever underestimate a drunk.
I encourage you to become an active member here. You'll find this to be the best gun forum on the internet. We keep it clean here, as we like to encourage a family environment here. But that's not to say we don't discuss serious stuff here. We talk about death and the possibility of having to kill someone. There's nothing good about that, but we endeavor to make it a clean environment and free of verbal attacks on members, flaming and vulgarity. I hope you'll like it here. We're here to help and everyone learns from their experiences here.
Now go visit the New Members Introduce Yourself forum and say Hi.
Be sure and read through the forum rules and don't be afraid to jump right in. If you have any questions, just PM any of the moderators here.
Awesome first post!
And welcome aboard!
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
March 24th, 2012 03:48 PM
It's amazing how quickly things can go from "normal" to a "Come to Jesus" moment. Many folks never consider it until it happens to them. Glad yours didn't escalate to violence, but remember what Jeff Cooper said "Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician."
"There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)
Best Choices for Self Defense Ammunition
March 24th, 2012 04:15 PM
Thanks for sharing. After situations like that happen it really opens your eyes to the dangers of the world doesn't it? If he had been an angry drunk and cut an artery that could have been it for you. Best to be prepared and safe than to be ignorant to the unpredictable world. Unfortunately there's many people that still think "That couldn't happen to me that's only on TV". I'd rather be called paranoid than not be able to protect myself and my wife.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable- JFK
March 24th, 2012 04:20 PM
Welcome to the room. Very glad things turned out well for you. Always hope for the best and live life by that. but your best offense is the planning of your defense. Thank god it was you who was approached and not your wife. I'd give serious consideration to mounting 3 or 4 motion sensor lights around the home. Stay safe.
March 24th, 2012 04:27 PM
Thanks for sharing...it sounds like you've gained some valuable knowledge about SA.
I'm glad nothing else happened, except for some lessons learned while remaining safe.
The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member[/B]
March 24th, 2012 04:53 PM
many, if not all of us will have moments go by unnoticed where our SA goes missing...
its the time(s) when someone 'appears' that we realize -- we missed a moment.
so it is either the last thing we learn or, having been brought up short, we cope and
we live & learn.
Arthritis sucks big-big
Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them
March 24th, 2012 05:04 PM
You were lucky you didn't get railed from behind. But it sounds like you accounted for yourself pretty well after you saw the guy.
March 24th, 2012 05:37 PM
Aren't you glad it all turned out this way? Drunk guy faceplanted on your driveway?
Good to arm yourself, but also good to be dangerous whenever you're within striking distance. Look into karate, krav maga, aikido, something like that.
The situation you describe here was virtually tailor made for pepper spray. Your home armamentarium should be robust. Firearms, sure. But also staffs, swords, a machete, knives, a chain whip, nunchaku - nobody should ever have to look far to find something solid and comforting at hand. A jutte, baseball bat, length of pipe, emei piercers, switchblades, throwing knives, a box of ball bearings, all of these things should be thoughtfully placed throughout your domicile.
If this drunk fellow seemed threatening, you do want to be able to do things like lean forward saying, "excuse me" and put a hand under his chin and pull on his knee from behind and hello! You have a lifetime ahead of you to acquire skills and weapons and learn how to use them. Make every day count.
Right now, I'm going outside and practicing a weapons form I've been doing for 15 years. Train until your responses are clean and automatic. Never give up, never stand down.
"It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."
March 24th, 2012 06:04 PM
Great first post. I'm still mulling what the right or better or best response to his request that you take his
home made weapon might have been. It worked out, so I guess you did the best.
I can understand not wanting to touch it, and I can certainly understand that agreeing to take it might
have put you in danger of a surprise slash as he pretended to hand it over.
OTOH, better it should have been in your hand where you could toss is away before clocking him if necessary.
Personally, I think he was a bit more together and potentially dangerous than you are supposing. He had the
wherewithal to effectively sneak up on you. He had the mental thought to use soft intimidation by letting you know
he had a knife without actually threatening you with it.
You avoided a deadly encounter by sheer luck and the onset of whatever combination of drugs and booze he
had consumed. Count yourself very lucky.
And next time, your wife needs to stay inside with the child. Unless she is armed and trained in H2H she
would not have been much help to you if things got physical. Maybe even gotten in the way. Another move might have been
to take the kid and walk to a neighboring home so she would have removed herself and the child from the bad scene.
If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
March 24th, 2012 07:05 PM
Pepper spray. Don't talk to people who invade your personal space uninvited. Create distance.
Leroy Jethro Gibbs' Rule #9.
Last edited by marcclarke; March 24th, 2012 at 09:20 PM.
Reason: Embelish and expand original terse and cryptic post.
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