Noticing a new trend

This is a discussion on Noticing a new trend within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by gatopardo I will reach for my firearm only if I'm ready to kill someone. If I touch my firearm, someone is going ...

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  1. #46
    Member Array Bkrazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatopardo View Post
    I will reach for my firearm only if I'm ready to kill someone.
    If I touch my firearm, someone is going to die.
    Simple.
    Wow, I hate it for anyone who is in your house when you are disarming or cleaning your weapon. Placing your hand on your weapon is the same as grabbing your knife without opening it. You are simply getting ready to address a possible situation. I could go on with countless stories of when I have been forced to draw/charge/brandish my weapon while conducting operations, but that would not translate to civilian experiences. I have been on the unfortunate end of a situation in which being able to look the possible BG in the eyes with the confidence of having a weapon would have probably made everyone feel much better. Instead, I looked at him, grabbed my knife (which could have been the correct message; in that he knew I was prepared to defend myself and my family) and made a hasty exit (from the establishment I felt he was preparing to rob). That experience is what made me purchase my first personal firearm. My opinion is that unless you are waving your gun around trying to "scare" people, you should not hesitate to be prepared to draw your weapon.
    Please take my posts with a grain of salt. I am frequently sleep deprived and always just on this side of "Krazy".

    When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle. Edmund Burke

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  3. #47
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    "STRANGER! DANGER!" LOL love it.

    You are correct. Instigating the situation would not be in anyone's best interest. You are also exactly right in what you stated. It would be the totality of the circumstances were you being followed, was the person making an overt move to get closer and so on that is where your SA and training come into play to be able to observe all this and make a good decision but more importantly we have to let common sense come into play.

    Your example of the car trouble is a perfect example. Common sense would tell me that a pregnant woman with a child, hood up, jumper cables in hand in a public enviroment is not a threat to me. In my case if I approached someone to ask for help yes they may tell me no, back off or whatever I can understand that to a point.

    I was thinking of the same thing that suntzu was in regards to walking, music on, hoodie up and simply did not hear the verbal message from whomever. I would normally not put myself in that position with my awareness being that low but others may. I can just hear it now "I told him to stop and he just kept coming, I was so afraid, it was like he was high or something and he did not even hear me". No not high but the Five Finger Death Punch blaring from my IPOD helped me ignore you.

    Let me ask this though. If for whatever reason a fellow CC'er for whatever reason perceived you as a threat and brandished, put hand on gun or whatever would you report to LE? It would be great to talk to the guy and defuse the situation but don't know if that would happen right at that moment.
    Harryball likes this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  4. #48
    Member Array 640girl's Avatar
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    Powerful, thank you. Situations I have thought about how to handle, you nailed it.
    S&W 640-3

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXxplosive View Post
    Street robberies and you - The Basics

    Everyone should call their local FBI office and get a copy of Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted. When it first came out it was ground breaking because it demonstrated to academics and other elites what street police knew all along. What did it show in interviews with cop killers? Nice guys finish dead. That's right. Most of those offenders commented that the Officer they killed set himself up to be killed because of reluctance to use force early in the encounter.
    NEW FINDINGS FROM FBI ABOUT COP ATTACKERS & THEIR WEAPONS -- Dec. 2006
    Force Science News

    Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers
    http://www.pdsdc.org/Resources/SLD/V...20by%20DOJ.pdf

    Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted (scroll to this entry)
    FBI — Uniform Crime Reports
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  6. #50
    Member Array Doubledown's Avatar
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    Lima, let me say that without a doubt I will help any pregnant women especially in the hot months. My son was 22 1/2" and 11# 14 oz born at the end of August to my 5' tall 125 pound now ex wife. That taught me to be more afraid of a pregnant woman in the heat than pretty much any guy I have encountered.

  7. #51
    Member Array DustyBottoms's Avatar
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    This has turned into a very interesting thread.

    I get the OP's point, but I really don't see alot of overreacting brandishing stories on here in my opinion. Most of what I read on here are people indentifying an aproaching possible threat (note that the suspect person is almost always aproaching the poster first) and usually clearing a cover garment, or getting a grip on their firearm, while sending a clear verbal or non-verbal cue to the person in question to cease and desist. To me that just makes sense to have my SA up and alert enough for me to not fall too far behind the loop if something IS going to happen, and start to react to a possible threat or developing situation. I don't want to wait for someone to get within arms reach of me before they state their intention to me, or I start reacting to it. We have all read, and its been brought up here inumerable times, about how fast an assailant can close the distance to you before you draw your weapon. I do not want to rely on hand to hand skills to resolve the situation, as I shouldn't have let them get that close to me to start with.

    Unfortunately, I have lived during my young life in many neighborhoods that bordered downright sketchy/ghetto areas in Savannah, Atlanta, Nashville, etc. Everything limatunes says about reading people, their facial cues, body language, etc is so spot on, especially in these areas were there is a much greater concentration of the shady criminal element. You have to act according to your reality. If, for some unkown reason, I choose to go to the very sketchy Walmart thats only a couple miles down the road during the night and someone abruptly yells "Hey man!" to me, or aproaches me in a manner I percieve as suspect in the parking lot, my SA will go on immediate alert and I will start moving my hand towards my weapon, or at the very least planning that move. I might not draw, and have never had to, but the preperation will be there, and in my area 9 times out of 10 I would be wise to do so. Thats just how it is. At another location, say a Walmart in Mayberry, that might be overreacting. That doesn't make me wrong to do so in my situation, and I see alot of that kind of thing on these boards.

  8. #52
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    There is no doubt that each situation will dictate what action will be taken. I think what the OP was trying to get to was folks are becoming to weapon reliant and that it could lead to some mistaken intentions and outcomes.
    claude clay likes this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    There is no doubt that each situation will dictate what action will be taken. I think what the OP was trying to get to was folks are becoming to weapon reliant and that it could lead to some mistaken intentions and outcomes.
    Exactly

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    Good Common Sense, Judgement and training are a must if your going to carry........that's it.

  11. #55
    Senior Member Array Kimberpackn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    This just might be me. But in the past couple of months it seems I am seeing more posts where folks say that they would display their firearm if they are approached by a stranger (usually at night or in a bad neighborhood). This is well before a weapon is displayed from the stranger or a direct sign of an attack.
    Also, we all no of the hoodie thing. But I see that cropping up a lot also in a multitude of threads. A lot of folks seem to be profiling too much.

    Maybe I am just reading the post more carefully lately. It is disconcerning that some feel it is OK to brandish a weapon as a pre-programmed response t certain triggers.

    Just my thoughts.
    I find it ironic that the op's username is Suntzu when it was the actual Suntzu that professed that knowing your enemy and his habits, behaviors, characteristics , etc are key points to winning a battle. Profiling is a tool not a discriminatory action.
    wmhawth and ep1953 like this.
    We should not forget that the spark which ignited the American Revolution was caused by the British attempt to confiscate the firearms of the colonists. -

    Patrick Henry

  12. #56
    Member Array DustyBottoms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberpackn View Post
    I find it ironic that the op's username is Suntzu when it was the actual Suntzu that professed that knowing your enemy and his habits, behaviors, characteristics , etc are key points to winning a battle. Profiling is a tool not a discriminatory action.
    Exactly, and I have a profile for all of the three races I'm likely to encounter in my area, white, black and hispanic, that I've developed just based on personel experience where I live. Anyone I encounter who fits either of the three is likely to at least get my attention. I'm equal opportunity when it comes to who I think might wish to do me harm!

  13. #57
    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    brandishing unless you intend to use it is not a good plan.

    and cause you intend to use it does not mean that you must--
    seeing it, your action of drawing it alone may be sufficient to have the
    BG decide an other direction, any one that is away from you, is desirable.

    but if you plug your ears with music or focus on acell phone rather than whats
    happening about you--you mask the world and get snuck up on---

    tools are at their best when used properly---and in a timely fashion.
    Be aware, be deliberate in your actions and be accurate.
    -------------------
    Why do those elected to positions of power than work so hard
    to deny those same opportunities to the same people who empowered them

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberpackn View Post
    I find it ironic that the op's username is Suntzu when it was the actual Suntzu that professed that knowing your enemy and his habits, behaviors, characteristics , etc are key points to winning a battle. Profiling is a tool not a discriminatory action.
    I will assume that was not an insult. Two points of which the second is very important:

    1. I said
    A lot of folks seem to be profiling too much.
    Too much of anything is not good. Did I say to not profile or discount someones mannerisms as something to keep in your SA tool box? I think not.

    2. SunTzu who happens to be IMO the military genius of all time was talking about preparation for battle on a battlefield. Rules of warfare and laws which we must abide by are different, much different. In war you can chalk up an oopsie as collateral damage. You can not do that in the civilian world.

    And if you have read the Art of War you would know how SunTzu got his job as head of the military for King Helu. He gathered all of the kings concubines and had the in a military formation. He barked out commands and they started to giggle. He said that if an order is not understood or clear and distinct it is the fault of the general. He then explained the commands to the concubines. Again he barked out an order. More giggling. He then turned to the king and said once orders are understood the fault lies not within the general but with their officers. Then to show he meant business he had two of the kings favorite concubines beheaded.
    So, you can not relate all military thinking and leadership techniques to the civilian world can we?
    tacman605 likes this.

  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatopardo View Post
    I will reach for my firearm only if I'm ready to kill someone.
    If I touch my firearm, someone is going to die.
    Simple.
    A- You don't shoot to kill. You shoot to stop the threat.

    B- I love these types of absolute statements. You touch your gun, the BG sees you do it and turns and moves away- disengaging. Is he still "going to die"?
    ep1953 likes this.

  16. #60
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    If you wait to grasp you sidearm until you see a weapon, it is likely going to be too late.

    It is rare for an attack to happen "out of the blue," although to the unaware it may seem that way. Most of the time, there are pre-attack cues you can notice, if you are paying attention.

    Grasping your sidearm, or even clearing the holster, does not need to be "brandishing." You can simply get a grip on it, or even clear the holster while still keeping it out of sight by the way you blade your body, or by keeping it hidden inside your clothes, etc.

    Bottom line is that you get the gun in hand when you perceive a threat; and fire when you see a weapon. If you wait to get a grasp until you see a weapon, you are in serious trouble.

    This is why I enjoy this forum; it guys like this gentleman here that illustrate a simple yet effective & common sense approach to defending one's life without going overboard.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

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