Unidentified LEO pulls gun - how to react?

This is a discussion on Unidentified LEO pulls gun - how to react? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is my first post, not sure if this was posted before. I am a licensed CCW holder and I don't know how I would ...

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 50
Like Tree38Likes

Thread: Unidentified LEO pulls gun - how to react?

  1. #1
    New Member Array tacticool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1

    Unidentified LEO pulls gun - how to react?

    This is my first post, not sure if this was posted before. I am a licensed CCW holder and I don't know how I would react in this situation. Anyone care to enlighten me with their opinion?

    Cop Pulls Out Gun On Motorcyclist - YouTube

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    10,030
    I would get off the motorcycle while keeping my hands in plain sight.
    W9HDG, Guest1, stancehold and 1 others like this.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  4. #3
    NMB
    NMB is offline
    Member Array NMB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Moon
    Posts
    342
    Well after watching the video, it appears there was a marked unit right behind him. So im guessing he knew what was up.

    Had it just been the lone undercover, jumping out with gun in hand, no badge from what I can see, and he doesnt say hes an officer until way after he draws. The situation would have been very very bad.
    beararms and FTG-05 like this.
    NRA Member
    Certified Kitchen Gunsmith

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive."
    - C.S. Lewis

  5. #4
    Member Array genauwiedu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    WI
    Posts
    182
    That cop was completely in the wrong. Why would you draw a gun on someone who isn't wielding a weapon? It looked like an attempted vehicle jacking by a wanted fugitive to me.
    beararms likes this.

  6. #5
    Member Array MisterAvis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bible Belt
    Posts
    224
    Didn't link the story. I know it. 1st point- he drew 1st, and has the drop on you, even if he was not LE. If the cyclist would have drawn we would be reading an obituary. My second point is that no matter the semantic justifications, he drew not because he was threatened, but because he felt he could not affect a traffic stop out of uniform without the use of a firearm. I'm not afraid to state that I am pretty f'n sick of the cowboy policing going on in this country. Call a marked patrol unit to make the stop. Too much federal candy is being passed out to departments. Too many tanks, too many AWs, too many sound cannons, too much tech, too many stormtroopers. This is not a foreign war zone. And the scary guys with beards and sandals all the way across the world narrative just doesn't cut it for me and shouldn't for you.. not any more... But to answer your question... Dude is alive and so is the cop. End of debate.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." -Obligatory Founding Father Quote

  7. #6
    Member Array W9HDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Wausau, WI
    Posts
    228
    You can see his badge clipped to his belt. I don't know how I would've reacted though. The guy got out of the unmarked weapon drawn, and there is no way you would've had time to draw back, not to mention just before he pulled over he looked over his shoulder and you could see the marked car.

    I guess in this case you just have to man up and pay the fine for doing 127 on a busy highway.

  8. #7
    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    NE FL
    Posts
    1,076
    that could become a very bad situation, without any form of ID that foolish cop might have been dropped.
    he only did it because MD is a place that doesn't have many people who can carry concealed, here in FLA a stop like that would be very unlikely because there is more of a chance of the person being stopped is armed and most people would comply with orders from a uniformed cop they might shoot someone who pulls a gun on them the way this guy did

  9. #8
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    10,030
    I went ahead and checked out the rest of the story, which merely began with the traffic incident. Google the officer's full name for the rundown.
    http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/32/3227.asp
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  10. #9
    Member Array genauwiedu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    WI
    Posts
    182
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I went ahead and checked out the rest of the story, which merely began with the traffic incident. Google the officer's full name for the rundown.
    Maryland Attorney General Upholds Right to Video Traffic Stops
    wow.......

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    West Allis WI
    Posts
    2,761
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I went ahead and checked out the rest of the story, which merely began with the traffic incident. Google the officer's full name for the rundown.
    Maryland Attorney General Upholds Right to Video Traffic Stops
    This article clearly shows that law enforcement and the attorney general of Maryland are nothing more than fascists.
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Posts
    1,455
    I think there was a little more to it than what is shown. I remember seeing this story a while ago and seem to remember something along the lines of this guy had been doing wheelies and massively speeding on the freeway before the portion of the video that was posted and had several marked cars behind him, it just happened to be the unmarked car that was closest when they finally stopped. I think he knew what was coming and that was part of the reason the rider responded calmly, and the cop was pissed because the rider had been endangering the public.

    I'm not saying he handled it the best, and the whole wiretap/recording an officer is a whole different issue. I was pissed when I first saw it too. I just didn't think it was fair to post just the video with no context.
    stancehold likes this.
    Walk softly ...

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member
    Array Pistology's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    South Coast LA Cty
    Posts
    1,971
    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    that could become a very bad situation, without any form of ID that foolish cop might have been dropped.
    he only did it because MD is a place that doesn't have many people who can carry concealed, here in FLA a stop like that would be very unlikely because there is more of a chance of the person being stopped is armed and most people would comply with orders from a uniformed cop they might shoot someone who pulls a gun on them the way this guy did
    "An armed society is a polite society" - Robert Heinlein.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigStick View Post
    I think there was a little more to it than what is shown. I remember seeing this story a while ago and seem to remember something along the lines of this guy had been doing wheelies and massively speeding on the freeway before the portion of the video that was posted and had several marked cars behind him, it just happened to be the unmarked car that was closest when they finally stopped. I think he knew what was coming and that was part of the reason the rider responded calmly, and the cop was pissed because the rider had been endangering the public.

    I'm not saying he handled it the best, and the whole wiretap/recording an officer is a whole different issue. I was pissed when I first saw it too. I just didn't think it was fair to post just the video with no context.
    The video that I saw showed the 127 mph and the wheelie and indicated only one marked car.

    Officer Uhler may have been coy with the gun because he saw the camera on top of cyclist Graeber's helmet. Another reason for Officer Uhler not to point the gun at cyclist Graeber is that the cops are behind the target, Graeber.
    I was surprised to read in the last link, Maryland Attorney General Upholds Right to Video Traffic Stops, that Officer "Uhler ordered his colleagues to raid Graeber's house". Don't they need a warrant? The wheels of justice turn slower than Graeber's but do turn:
    Under the interpretation of the state police and prosecutors, a police officer has an expectation of privacy while working on public streets. Ordinary citizens on those same streets, however, have no such expectation and are subjected to constant monitoring by the state's red light cameras, speed cameras and recently expanded automated license plate recognition systems. The attorney general's office examined the question of whether the conversation in a traffic stop constituted an "oral conversation" that is "intercepted" under the wiretap act if a citizen records the arrest. After considering a related attorney general ruling from 2000, McDonald ruled that there is no difference between a police officer and a citizen as far as the statute is concerned.
    "The reasoning of that excerpt, which suggested that a police officer would not face prosecution or liability under the act for recording an arrest or traffic stop in a public place, would apply equally well to a private person involved in the same incident," McDonald wrote.
    It seems that usually when cops torture a law with some vague concept of special police "expectation" or whatever - a law that gives them no special privilege - that they get thrown out of of court on their ear - and rightfully so. A cop doing his job need not worry about video. Maybe the plainclothesman doesn't want his image on the net? The vast majority of cops respect the law and its applicability to them as equivalent to all citizens where there is no clear exception in the law.
    sgb likes this.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  14. #13
    VIP Member
    Array tacman605's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arkansas/On the X in Afghanistan
    Posts
    3,031
    Ah here we go again.

    Two seperate issues here the stop and the videotaping.

    First the stop. To those who have posted the cops are facists, this was an innocent kid who had no idea and so on this stop was at the end of a pursuit. The rider knew the police were after him he turns and looks at the marked unit with lights and siren on so he is nowhere near innocent. This video went around the block several times before with folks saying what they would or would not do.

    You do see the badge on the officers belt, he has a loaded Glock in his hand and you are going to draw, wow, some of you are certainly high speed ninjas here. As far as the videotaping thing doesn't concern me a bit it is a state law and I don't wear a helmet cam or carry a cam so I guess I am ok.

    For those that would defend the rider "He was just fooling around, it was just traffic violations, they had no need to do all that". When riding or driving you can be a 10 time world champion rider or a NASCAR pro, it is not your skills you have to worry about it is the 85 year old grandma that sees you coming up on her in her mirror doing a wheelie and freaks out causing you to lose control, her to lose control resulting in a family of four being wiped out on the highway.

    A popular phrase on here fits. Do stupid things, win stupid prizes.

    To Mister Avis you need to refit your tinfoil hat. Wow cowboy policing. As I stated there was a marked unit behind this guy, this was the end of a pursuit. Since you have all this LE experience please tell us more of why the officer did what he did and include your experiences with the bearded men with sandals in the deserts of the world. You stated you are sick of things well I to am sick of people who have all this supposed knowledge and come to find out they get it by watching CNN and have never left their own couch.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  15. #14
    Member Array TVille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    173
    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Ah here we go again.

    ....
    As far as the videotaping thing doesn't concern me a bit it is a state law and I don't wear a helmet cam or carry a cam so I guess I am ok.
    Allow me to rephrase your response:
    As far as the gun thing doesn't concern me a bit it is a state law and I don't wear a helmet cam or carry a gun so I guess I am ok.
    I understand your points, but every time we lose a right, another one is lined up to fall behind it. Yes, the kid on the bike knew he was being pulled over, and wasn't happy about the cop's approach to it and posted the video. The kid on the bike should have expected to have been pulled over. But that doesn't give the state the right to charge him with wire tapping, especially because the cop was pissed because the video was posted.

  16. #15
    Guest Array Guest1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    home-astan(FINALLY)
    Posts
    1,125
    What!?,watch the video again,cutting between cars,reckless endangerment,oviuosly fleeing,why else would he look back then continue on?Felony stop was in line,Yes the Officer should have immediately ID himself as he exited the vehicle,he was being pursued,as there was a unit staged directly behind him.
    Quote Originally Posted by genauwiedu View Post
    That cop was completely in the wrong. Why would you draw a gun on someone who isn't wielding a weapon? It looked like an attempted vehicle jacking by a wanted fugitive to me.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •