Consent to search or not? - Page 2

Consent to search or not?

This is a discussion on Consent to search or not? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; When an officer makes a traffic stop he does so under the premise that you have committed a violation of some kind, speeding, taillight out ...

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Thread: Consent to search or not?

  1. #16
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    When an officer makes a traffic stop he does so under the premise that you have committed a violation of some kind, speeding, taillight out and so on. Technically the officer has arrested/detained you. By signing the citation you are promising to appear in court and he releases you on your own merit simple as that. Further the simple act of signing the citation does not admit guilt it is simple your promise to appear in court.

    Should you refuse to sign the citation he can and will take you to jail and require you to post a cash bond because now you have not promised to appear and the city/county/state will get their money. In many places it is perfectly legal and commonplace that a person who lives outside that courts jurisdiction or whatever policies are in place in regards to the offense with that department you will be required to bond out of jail anyway if you are not local or if it is one of the more serious offenses.

    The officer cannot "Arrest you" search your vehicle then unarrest you and let you go. The search incidental to arrest is literally a custodial arrest, you are in cuffs in his car type thing. There are several "Automobile Exceptions" to search and seizure laws simply because a vehicle is something that is mobile so leadway is given in regards to searches. The plain view doctrine plays a big part in vehicle searches. What the officer can see, smell, hear, touch can lead him to enough to continue the search if it merits it.

    You still maintain the right if you give permission to limit the scope of the search or stop the search at anytime again without penalty or further action being taken however once under arrest you really have no say so in the search. In an instance of a search incidental to arrest he can search the entire vehicle and anything in it.

    Hope this answers your question Shadow.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bkrazy View Post
    How does this differ with MPs (Military)? I know this is slightly off the original scope but still within the realm of the topic. The MPs I have spoken with would never give me any insight into how they operate and what if any rights I have with them. I know as a service member I have given up some of my rights, but how does this affect say, my wife or my teenage kids while walking on post? I live in Govt quarters, but off the main installation. They patrol our neighborhood, but will not respond to any non emergency calls. I must contact Polizi if I have a non emergency. This makes me wonder just what authority they have.

    If this should be moved please mods feel free to move it.
    By virtue of being on base, military dependents have given consent to follow the rules and regulations that govern the base. On base you cannot refuse to allow a search of your vehicle. If you read the signs at the entrance to bases, one of the statements is that by entering the base you give consent to your vehicle being searched.

    As to the situation you describe with the MP's patrolling but not responding to routine calls, what they can and can't do is determined by the SOFA agreement with the host country. I do know that in Germany, unless things have changed, you do not refuse to follow a Polizi instructions. They WILL use force, to whatever extent they deem necessary. Also they do not need your permission to search your vehicle.
    sigs likes this.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
    I know most traffic tickets are citations. If your traffic violation is a borderline misdemeanor...
    wouldn't the refusal to search have some weight in the officers decision to write a citation, or to just go ahead and arrest to search?
    I will never consent to a search. Now the officer may write me a ticket if I wouldn't t consent, but if he's of the type that if he can't search my car he'll write me a ticket, then I'm probably going to get a ticket anyway.

    As for the second part, he cannot arrest you without probable cause. Exercising your rights does not lead to either RAS or PC - if it did, then every time you refuse to talk to a cop, he'd be able to arrest you!

    I've talked to cops when they've stopped me for minor traffice violations, e.g., slow and gos, slight speeding. Yeah, I've not relied on my right to remain silent, big deal* (if more serious charges were at issue, e.g., a self defense shooting, I wouldn't say a dang word other than I'm lawyering up). But I'll never consent to a search - (I've never had an LEO ask to search me or my vehicle).

  4. #19
    Member Array tacmansgirl's Avatar
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    It would probably be in whomever's best intrest to go ahead and consent to the search.. It shows a little bit of maturity, honesty, and manhood if you will!!! But if you want to deny the search obviously the officer is going to think you are hiding something, and things could take the opposite of the right turn from which you wanted to begin with, so I say MAN UP/ WOMAN UP and make it easier on you and the officer!!!
    "The Lord is on my side; I will not fear"
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  5. #20
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Its happened to me. I let them do there thing, and on my way I went. My situation may have been different, but if I would have refused, they would have hauled me off....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcgyver210 View Post
    When a LEO is asking questions you should never assume he or she has your best interest or safety in mind.
    Unfortunately it is a sign of the times and the above quote says it all. I consider myself a law abiding guy who, when CC, follows the letter of the traffic law and have nothing whatsoever to hide in my vehicle. Having said that--I may not know the LEO from Adam and I do not know what, if any, kind of problem or attitude he may have. His safety and his best interest are what he is concerned about first and foremost--not mine.
    mcgyver210 likes this.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array tubadude's Avatar
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    I'll never consent to a search because I don't have anything to hide. Recently, a few people I graduated with we're complaining about getting their cars searched during a traffic stop. I asked all of them if they consented, and their answers were all yes and how they didn't want to seem like they had something to hide. I then gave them a little lesson on their rights.

  8. #23
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    Since leaving LE I have never been asked to consent to a search when I have been stopped, twice I think in 6 years. Both times stopped I had committed a traffic violation, years of driving over here does not lead to good driving habits in the states.

    I would not have an issue with him wanting to search there is nothing there so whatever floats your boat. To those who state he could plant drugs and so on if he is that corupt he will tag you for something anyways and it would only be settled in court not on the side of the road. I can't help but laugh at those who have stated they would envoke there right to remain silent and not talk to the officer, now instead of a simple traffic ticket he now takes you to jail to get the same information he could have gotten on the side of the road. Your car does get inventoried, towed away and now you have to post a cash bond but again to each his own.

    Attitudes are everything in contacts from traffic stops both from the officer and the driver so everyone would handle it in a different way 99% of the time he is an average guy doing a job plain and simple is not out to frame you for killing Kennedy.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  9. #24
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    I try to respect every LEO I come in contact with. The two times I was was pulled over for traffic violations while CC went without incident. I notified them I was carrying, got a ticket on one occasion and off I went. These were instances where I had broken the law. However, I would not consent to further search in these circumstances. I would be more than happy to surrender my firearm durring my interaction with the LEO as it is the law in KY and most other CC states. I believe we are compelled by statute to notify LEOs we are carrying when we have any official interaction with a LEO. Am I correct on this?
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  10. #25
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Since leaving LE I have never been asked to consent to a search when I have been stopped, twice I think in 6 years. Both times stopped I had committed a traffic violation, years of driving over here does not lead to good driving habits in the states.

    I would not have an issue with him wanting to search there is nothing there so whatever floats your boat. To those who state he could plant drugs and so on if he is that corupt he will tag you for something anyways and it would only be settled in court not on the side of the road. I can't help but laugh at those who have stated they would envoke there right to remain silent and not talk to the officer, now instead of a simple traffic ticket he now takes you to jail to get the same information he could have gotten on the side of the road. Your car does get inventoried, towed away and now you have to post a cash bond but again to each his own.

    Attitudes are everything in contacts from traffic stops both from the officer and the driver so everyone would handle it in a different way 99% of the time he is an average guy doing a job plain and simple is not out to frame you for killing Kennedy.

    I'm not really worried about an officer planting evidence, nor do I have anything to hide, however, I would most likely not consent to a search. That is my take, but if you want to consent, that is your business.
    Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine

  11. #26
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    Thanks for posting the links. Things we know but reinforced in a critical way. Especially the talk by the defense atty. and the cop.

  12. #27
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    This is an excellent excellent video I someone posted a while back but he really hits the topic.

    Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1 - YouTube

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacmansgirl View Post
    It would probably be in whomever's best intrest to go ahead and consent to the search.. It shows a little bit of maturity, honesty, and manhood if you will!!! But if you want to deny the search obviously the officer is going to think you are hiding something, and things could take the opposite of the right turn from which you wanted to begin with, so I say MAN UP/ WOMAN UP and make it easier on you and the officer!!!
    Its a slippery slope when you start giving up your rights. I have never been arrested, served 20 years in the military without a single disciplinary incident, and I definitely don't have anything to hide. I still won't give any police officer my permission to search my car because of the simple fact that I'm protecting my rights. If you don't excersize your rights, are you also the type of person who would roll over if the government decided to have you register and/or turn in your firearms? Once you stop defending your rights, where do you draw the line in future rights violations?

    I would definitely be courteous and respectful of the officer and would cooperate, but would stop short of allowing a search of my car, just like I wouldn't allow an officer to search my house without a warrant.
    Stubborn, suntzu, Badey and 1 others like this.
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  14. #29
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    Allot of good advise given here. Think of the Miranda notification, can and WILL be used against you (never ever for you). Nothing positive can occur allowing a search, only negative consequences, even if you think you have nothing to hide. There might be something you're not aware of, such as; did you purchase your vehicle used? Did the previous owner / occupants leave something hidden behind, perhaps unintentionally lost between the seats or somewhere else? Did someone you gave a ride to or loaned the car to leave behind something illegal, etc. etc.? Always remember, when YOU'RE the subject of LE attention, they are NOT your friend.
    Chesafreak likes this.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacmansgirl View Post
    It would probably be in whomever's best intrest to go ahead and consent to the search.. It shows a little bit of maturity, honesty, and manhood if you will!!! But if you want to deny the search obviously the officer is going to think you are hiding something, and things could take the opposite of the right turn from which you wanted to begin with, so I say MAN UP/ WOMAN UP and make it easier on you and the officer!!!
    Would you mind dropping your drawers so I can check things out, you have nothing to hide do you??????


    That is no more offensive than someone asking to search my vehicle.

    Someone on another gun board had as his signature line...

    cop} Do you mind if I search your car?
    me} Do you mind if I piss in your boot?

    Guess you can tell where I stand.

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