Consent to search or not?

This is a discussion on Consent to search or not? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have noticed on several post that say "don't consent to a search if asked". I can see kinda what they are saying but really ...

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Thread: Consent to search or not?

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array REVMAN's Avatar
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    Consent to search or not?

    I have noticed on several post that say "don't consent to a search if asked". I can see kinda what they are saying but really doesn't that just make the leo more suspicious and could very well cause a huge delay in your trip while getting authority to do the search? It just seems to me that being up front with any question asked by the leo would be the best way to go.....that's just my thought and I may be completely off.
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    Add, let it be know that you remain to be silent (you need to be sure that you verbally tell them this, as well as you do not concensent to a search).

    An honest Policeman/LEO knows the law and won't screw you. Don't be the one to demonstrate that you found the one Policeman/LEO that did not know the law and did not give a crap about your rights.

    Alway remain polite.
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    Well first is on a traffic stop the LEO asks for permission to search and you decline that request there is no higher authority to give permission to conduct the search.

    Once you decline, you have declined no further action, penalty, extra tickets or whatever can be taken or given without probable cause. The rule of thumb is the officer has 15 minutes to detain you on a traffic stop, that can go over a little if he is waiting on a K9, but other than that he has to have you on your way in that time frame.

    Once you are arrested however it now becomes a search incidental to arrest and the rules change somewhat.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    No I would never consent to a search. First I do not want to be searched and I do not believe that I should have to prove my innocence to anyone. Second, I do not know the person asking to preform the search from Adam. For all I know he is going to plant drugs or other contraband on me. Yes, it may cause him to be suspicious. I had a good friend who was a LEO and he just could not understand why someone refusing a search should not be a reason to search.

    The best way to go for me is to refuse all searches. I have done this on a few occasions without encountering any difficulty. Your mileage may vary.

    Michael
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  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Well, you are going to be standing there wasting time while they do the search..... when you know there's nothing illegal in your car.

    I got into a habit, which I still have, if I exit my car.... the door is locked. I was pulled over once and out of pure habit locked the car door when I got out. At the time, no.... it was not standard procedure for people to 'stay' in their car, but for people to 'get out of their car' so they didn't have access to a weapon, etc. that could be in the car.

    The officer wanted to immediately know "why" I had locked the door. I told him. Then , he wants my permission to search the vehicle..... I told him "NO".... he demanded the keys, which I advised him .... if he wanted in , he was going to have to break into the car, I refused to give him the keys.

    He informed me that he "could get a warrant" ...... OK.... GREAT ... go get one, I'll be right here.

    He kept going on and on and on and on about "why" .... I told him I refused to answer any further questions, and to either write me a ticket and let me go on about my business, or get the damn warrant.

    I had nothing in my car that was of any interest to anyone, other than me. But, when he started with the "attitude" about "why" I had locked the car, and started the inquisition, I was determined to exercise every right I have.... we don't exercise them, we in essence have surrendered them.

    After a bit and radioing in..... he told me that he was going to let me go (no ticket... I didn't do anything to deserve one either). So, I went to put my drivers license up, when he saw my badge...... and he stated " you have a badge" .... "yes".
    When he asked "why didn't you tell me about that" ..... my answer : "because you didn't ask, I'm not obligated to tell you, and you shouldn't be treating me any different than you would anyone else " . And I left.

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    Do you think they are looking for something to prove you did not do anything, or looking to prove you did something wrong?

    No, every time.
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  8. #7
    Member Array mcgyver210's Avatar
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    When a LEO is asking questions you should never assume he or she has your best interest or safety in mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcgyver210 View Post
    When a LEO is asking questions you should never assume he or she has your best interest or safety in mind.
    Much like a DA, most Policeman/LEO are only considering 'Wins versus Losses' at the end of the day, and getting off of shift safe. You often become a footnote that they might have to go to court over, at a later time. And, later in court, the key concern they have then is that they did not screw something up, meaning that you are now a threat to their job.

    DA's are even worse. They just want to crush everyone, regardless of your rights, to win another notch on the belt.

    I have friends that are honest Policemen/LEO (can count them on only one hand) and then I know far more that are are very poor at tact, have tunnel vision on how much power they have and are sloppy with a lack of attention to detail (poor report writing = you are screwed if they mess up key details).

    Again, always be polite, know your rights and verbally express your rights. 'Your protections are not assumed under the law' if you do not verbalize them. Lucky for us, most Police/LEO record everything, which works to your favor in this.
    Last edited by ANGLICO; April 17th, 2012 at 03:04 AM.
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    Member Array Bkrazy's Avatar
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    How does this differ with MPs (Military)? I know this is slightly off the original scope but still within the realm of the topic. The MPs I have spoken with would never give me any insight into how they operate and what if any rights I have with them. I know as a service member I have given up some of my rights, but how does this affect say, my wife or my teenage kids while walking on post? I live in Govt quarters, but off the main installation. They patrol our neighborhood, but will not respond to any non emergency calls. I must contact Polizi if I have a non emergency. This makes me wonder just what authority they have.

    If this should be moved please mods feel free to move it.
    Please take my posts with a grain of salt. I am frequently sleep deprived and always just on this side of "Krazy".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bkrazy View Post
    How does this differ with MPs (Military)? I know this is slightly off the original scope but still within the realm of the topic. The MPs I have spoken with would never give me any insight into how they operate and what if any rights I have with them. I know as a service member I have given up some of my rights, but how does this affect say, my wife or my teenage kids while walking on post? I live in Govt quarters, but off the main installation. They patrol our neighborhood, but will not respond to any non emergency calls. I must contact Polizi if I have a non emergency. This makes me wonder just what authority they have.

    If this should be moved please mods feel free to move it.
    Let me whip out my worn copy of "Sea Lawyer 101" - just kidding.

    So you live in housing that is owned by the Gov, but out in town (dual juristiction?).

    Bottom line is if the MP's have Juristiction, you are subject to the UCMJ.

    In some areas, such as right to counsel and rights (Miranda) warnings, military personnel have broader protections than those afforded their civilian counterparts under the Constitution. However, in areas such as search and seizure, they have reduced expectations of privacy and fewer protections.

    Update to post - oh, you are OCONUS. You are always better off with the MPs, depending on the crime.
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  12. #11
    Senior Member Array TheShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Once you are arrested however it now becomes a search incidental to arrest and the rules change somewhat.
    I know most traffic tickets are citations. If your traffic violation is a borderline misdemeanor...
    wouldn't the refusal to search have some weight in the officers decision to write a citation, or to just go ahead and arrest to search?
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  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Never consent to a search, never.
    Police Officer Search, Traffic stop rights, Police Searches, Police Rights

    Also it might help you to watch this video. A bit long but well worth it.
    Dont Talk to Police - YouTube
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Unless they see something in the vehicle that gives them probable cause to search which they don't need your permission at that point,what they are doing is called "fishing",they are looking for something they may be able to arrest you for.Lets say you gave a friend a ride,he accidently dropped a "joint" in your car that you have no knowledge of nor do you buy or smoke pot,but you give consent and LEO finds the pot,you are now being charged with possession since you are in control of the vehicle.
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  15. #14
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    As mentioned before in other threads. I have had a LEO ask to search my vehicle. I said no sir. Am I being detained, He got huffy but let me leave. If I did things in life to make my life easy I would not have chosen the profession I had. I refuse to have my rights violated. I OC and would refuse to cover up also. Am I making a point.heck no. Just like going to vote, nothing should intimidate you to deny your rights. And I am sorry if this offends anybody but if you sacrifice your rights for the sake of convenience or it might get you out of a ticket then IMO that is very sheepish.
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  16. #15
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    I have been told that if you keep your firearm in the console or under your seat that this will give the officer an excuse to go into the car and get it under the guise of securing the weapon for the duration of the stop. Giving him the opportunity to casually look for other items while he is inside. If this is true then it is wise to keep the weapon on your person instead. Taking away his excuse to enter your vehicle.

    Michael

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