CC on U.S. INDIGENOUS TRIBAL LANDS - Page 2

CC on U.S. INDIGENOUS TRIBAL LANDS

This is a discussion on CC on U.S. INDIGENOUS TRIBAL LANDS within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I live in Idaho, and when I go to the next major town 75 miles from my house I have to travel through an indian ...

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Thread: CC on U.S. INDIGENOUS TRIBAL LANDS

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array Mr B's Avatar
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    I live in Idaho, and when I go to the next major town 75 miles from my house I have to travel through an indian reservation. Im on a state highway and its patroled by the Idaho state police and its no big deal here. Im always carrying when im out or when I go to town, so its no big deal here.


  2. #17
    New Member Array outlawvrod's Avatar
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    First off... Let's have some respect for the Tribes. You do not have to like the Tribes, but as non-natives, I think we should show respect and honor them.


    Idaho - Nez Perce Tribe
    4-1-126 Weapons Offense
    (b) As used in this section, proper authority to carry a concealed weapon shall include the authority granted to any law enforcement officer or a permit issued by the state of Idaho.

    Cheyenne-Arapaho Tribes of Oklahoma
    Section 508. Aggravated Weapons Offense
    (a) It shall be unlawful to carry a dangerous weapon concealed on the person or to threaten to use or exhibit a dangerous weapon in a dangerous and threatening manner, or use a dangerous weapons in a fight or quarrel; or to possess a shotgun or rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than sixteen inches in a length or an altered or modified shotgun or rifle less than twenty- four inches overall length.
    (b) Aggravated weapons offense shall be punishable by a fine not to exceed Five Thousand Dollars ($5,000.00), or by a term of imprisonment in the Tribal jail not to exceed one year, or both.

    Oregon - Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla Reservation
    Park XV Section 4.156.Concealed Weapons
    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a concealed dangerous weapon upon his person without also having in his possession a permit signed by a Judge of the Umatilla Tribal Court, the Chief of the Umatilla Tribal Police Department, and countersigned by the Superintendent of the Umatilla Agency.
    B. Upon conviction, any weapons so carried shall be confiscated by order to the Umatilla Tribal Court.
    C. This section does not apply to persons in their place of residence or business or to duly appointed law enforcement officers.

    Montana Assiniboine & Sioux
    Sec. 401. Carrying concealed dangerous weapon.
    Whoever carries, concealed about his/her person, any of the following weapons, unless they are carried with specific governmental approval, is guilty of carrying a concealed dangerous weapon:
    (a) any blackjack, billy, bludgeon, metal knuckles, or any knife with a blade over four (4) inches long or other sharp or dangerous instrument usually employed in the attack or defense of a person; or (b) any gun or dangerous firearm, whether loaded or unloaded. Carrying a concealed weapon is a Class A misdemeanor. In addition to the penalty prescribed for such an offense, any person convicted of carrying a concealed weapon may be ordered by the Fort Peck Tribal Court to forfeit any such weapon to the Tribes.
    (AMENDED AS PER RESOLUTION NO. 2275-2005-10, DATED 10/24/05)


    Lots of information at this link.
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/tribal_law_ccw.pdf

    It appears the majority of tribes do not allow any CC on their lands whatsoever, it also appears that in most cases that they can take your gun (as in confiscated) and fine you up to $5,000 or more and in some cases even jail you.

    From what I have read so far there is absolutely no consistency in their laws, and when on their land, regardless of where you are, it appears consistent that you are subject to the enforcement of their laws. However at the beginning of the linked document it states "Tribal Law only applies to those who live on the Reservation. If you are carrying a firearm with a permit/license that is valid in the state the reservation is located in that permit/license may not be valid on the Reservation. They will most likely take the firearm and tell you that you can go to Tribal Court to get it back."

    That is what I honestly expected initially with CC... That "Tribal Law only applies to those who live on the Reservation" After all most of us are not citizens of their sovereign nation... right.

    But I have known for years that this is not true because from first hand knowledge I know that if you break tribal law on lake Coeur d'Alene in Northern Idaho the local Coeur d'Alene tribal police, if on their half of the lake, will bust you and fine you for their laws on the lake... they will even chase you to the state side of the lake to get you.

    And do not kid yourself; I have been pulled over by a Tribal Cop in Washington State on a major highway that goes through their reservation. Got a ticket too... first one in over 20 years. but that is another story.
    dev_null likes this.

  3. #18
    Member Array Teeshot's Avatar
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    Those of you interested, should see the latest update in the Tribal Laws section of handgunlaw.us regarding the Cherokee NC tribal lands.

  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    I have called multiple tribes here in WA, and the consensus that I got was if you want to carry concealed on their land, you need approval from their tribal council. None of this was in writing though.

    I think the only thing consistant is the inconsistancy with which the laws apply and probably will be enforced. I'm torn between my frustration with the inconsistancy and the realization that we need to respect their rules and their laws. This was all their land at one point, before we had any of our founding documents.

    That being said though, it does seem that at least certain members of the tribes are still bitter about that and will take every oportunity to remind you of it and seek retribution. So I would not want to take my chances with getting stopped by one of the few individuals who wants to make an example of you. If I know I will be getting off the road on one of the tribes land, I will try to leave my sidearm at home.
    Walk softly ...

  5. #20
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    Back in the 90's I lived and worked (teacher) on the Navajo Reservation in NE Arizona. We used to go out shooting in the boonies around the school 2-3 times a week and never heard a word from the Tribal Police about it. They were at our school a few times and seemed like pretty cool guys in the few conversations I had with them. I joked with them about being such a RICH department as they were carrying H&K P7's - when my hometown cops could only afford Glocks....

  6. #21
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    I've been doing a lot of traveling to and through OK from Arkansas in the last few months. I travel on the interstate and highways but always see signs stating that I am entering the Cherokee, Choctaw, etc Indian Nation. Is this considered tribal land where you have to worry about CC? I've always wondered what Indian land signified. I'm on a state highway, there's stores and businesses all around and housing or subdivisions that is obviously not Native American inhabited. I've tried to located maps but assumed that actual Native American land was like a reservation. Can anyone clarify how this works in Oklahoma?

  7. #22
    Member Array Teeshot's Avatar
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    So are you saying Native American's can't have stores, businesses and have to live in teepee's ? And what do yo believe a "reservation" should look like?

  8. #23
    Member Array khukuri's Avatar
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    That wasn't even close to what I was saying and I'm not even sure that your comment deserved a reply since it's putting words into my mouth or inferring a derogitory intent on my part and doing nothing but trying to incite unproductive animosity. I come here to learn and provide helpful input when I have it not engage in some meaningless back and forth discussion.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    Approx of AZ is Indian reservation land. I never worry about CC when driving thru a reservation, but exercise caution on how I want to handle a firearm on the res. Have had some friends lose their guns on the reservation. Also have friends that have regularly hunted on the reservations. Licenses are controlled thru the reservation and have nothing to do with the state Fish & Game Dept.
    I personally consider the reservations a type of communism society, where the tribe owns everything and the individual owns very little (in terms of land/property). Starting to get off topic, so I’m done.
    Bottom line – know THEIR rules when on a reservation.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein

    "People in Arizona carry guns," said a Chandler police spokesman. "You better be careful about who you are picking on."

  10. #25
    New Member Array dahur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 74 View Post
    In NM, generally, you are ok if you stay on the main roads through tribal areas and if the guns are kept IN the vehicle.
    My CC instructor told us Indian land is a "nation unto itself", to quote him. He said they have their own laws outside of federal and State laws, and told us to never carry our weapons onto Indian land, ever. I wouldn't take the chance here in NM.

  11. #26
    74
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    Quote Originally Posted by dahur View Post
    My CC instructor told us Indian land is a "nation unto itself", to quote him. He said they have their own laws outside of federal and State laws, and told us to never carry our weapons onto Indian land, ever. I wouldn't take the chance here in NM.
    I'm not talking about getting out of your vehicle and walking around onto "Indian land." I'm talking about getting from point a to point b, staying on state roads and in your vehicle which in this state is still considered an extension of your home. State law does not cease to exist just because you cross an invisible line.

    By that logic, in certain parts of the state you could not travel at all with a weapon in your vehicle.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by outlawvrod View Post
    Oregon - Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla Reservation
    Park XV Section 4.156.Concealed Weapons
    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a concealed dangerous weapon upon his person without also having in his possession a permit signed by a Judge of the Umatilla Tribal Court, the Chief of the Umatilla Tribal Police Department, and countersigned by the Superintendent of the Umatilla Agency.
    B. Upon conviction, any weapons so carried shall be confiscated by order to the Umatilla Tribal Court.
    C. This section does not apply to persons in their place of residence or business or to duly appointed law enforcement officers.
    Yeah, this one has always given me a headache.

    I travel through Pendleton regularly, and the most convenient gas/food/drink stop is a truck stop on, owned, and operated by the Umatilla Nation. So naturally, that one is off-limits to me, which leaves me driving into town if I need gas or coffee in Pendleton. In fact, the 20mi stretch south of I-84 is on the rez, to travellers beware...

  13. #28
    74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xader View Post
    In fact, the 20mi stretch south of I-84 is on the rez, to travellers beware...
    Who patrols this section, and who has jurisdiction if it's an interstate? State police, Res. Police? Both?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 74 View Post
    Who patrols this section, and who has jurisdiction if it's an interstate? State police, Res. Police? Both?
    On the interstate, OSP is sighted most often. I don't think I've ever seen anyone stopped by tribal police on the freeway, but who knows? But pull off the interstate, and then you're in a whole different situation.

    Also, in Oregon, Tribal Enforcement are sworn Oregon peace officers with statutory powers of arrest. So there are more grey areas there.

    I'm no lawyer, so I don't push my luck. I just stay on 84, and drive on through.

  15. #30
    74
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    I'm not saying it can't happen, but I have yet to hear about someone having a problem in NM or AZ. The Navajo reservations in the 4-corners areas are extremely vast; there's almost no way to avoid going through them.

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