CC on U.S. INDIGENOUS TRIBAL LANDS
This is a discussion on CC on U.S. INDIGENOUS TRIBAL LANDS within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I don't want to hijack this thread, but I still have a few questions that are pertinent to the topic.
Still new to all this...
May 25th, 2012 11:43 AM
I don't want to hijack this thread, but I still have a few questions that are pertinent to the topic.
Still new to all this...
I will be traveling with my 11yo son in a few weeks through (from KS) New mexico, NE corner of AZ, SW corner of UT, and through CO. The route will take us through a few different tribal lands.
I have no problems with respecting tribal law and not CC'ing on tribal lands. I don't plan on sticking around that long. Maybe a few picture stops, that's it.
But, from what I can see, I would be well advised to NOT carry a weapon AT ALL on their lands.
This is not practical for a lone woman and boy traveling/camping alone for 2 weeks.
I am having a heck of a time finding ANY information of a concrete nature and of a recent enough timeline. Contradictions are everywhere. And some nations don't even have any information at all. It seems like the law depends on which way the winds are blowing on a Tuesday on the top of a specific mesa at high noon unless it is a leap year with a full moon on the second Saturday in May......... You get the point.
So, my question is this:
How do I correctly store my weapons (2 handguns) so as to minimize any issues? Should the guns be stored in a separate locked box locked in the truck cab and the magazines and ammo in a separate locked box locked in the bed of the truck??? (I have a Chevy Avalanche and bed is secureable to a pretty good degree)This is usually a method that is good enough for feds.
Thanks for the help!
May 25th, 2012 04:10 PM
Reservations are sovereign territory. They make and enforce their own laws/rules. Many Indian Casinos would be the same
May 26th, 2012 09:16 AM
I think it all comes down to how much risk you are willing to accept for the peace of mind of having protection. To carry a loaded weapon at any time has risks in and of itself. You could find yourself in Zimmerman's shoes under a perfectly legitimate and dangerous situation. The bottom line is that when on Tribal lands you are subject to their laws period and I am fairly sure no one can stop that, not even the feds. If you put yourself into a position where you may encounter Tribal Police, for any reason, then the risk would obviously be greater. Locking the firearm in lock boxes certainly goes about as far as you can reasonably go while traveling through their lands. The key word being "reasonable." You could still get yourself into a situation where you may have your weapons confiscated, it all depends on what you do and what you say given the circumstances that brought you into the situation. I certainly would not give up the information about what is in the box without being asked… for one.
Originally Posted by catt101
There is an earlier post about Tribal lands in Pendleton Oregon and a gas station which is also next to a large casino (both on tribal lands) at the base of the Blue Mountains. I travel this area all the time and stop at that particular gas station for gas (you pump your own cheaper gas, and yes in Oregon someone must pump your gas) and I have even stayed at the casino hotel on occasion. For the past few Months I have not gone out of my way beyond leaving my weapon in the center console when getting gas or unloaded inside my suit case in my trunk or in my hotel room. I do not plan to behave in a manner that would lead to having an encounter with any Tribal authorities including the casino cops and feel the risk is reasonable and I am willing to take that risk. You must decide the level of risk your are willing to accept.
As far as Interstate freeways... others seem to have this correct as well, I also have never seen the Tribal Police "patrol" the Interstates, (not to say I have never seen them on the Interstates on Tribal lands and I do seem to remember having seen a car pulled over once years ago but it looked like a big deal at the time with several different tribal cop cars on the stop) but it is true that, when you get off the freeway, even onto a major state highway... game over.
May 26th, 2012 01:32 PM
Catt, I'd say you should be okay if you are dealing only with men, and the firearm is obviously being carried for defensive purposes, but avoid women. Men are genetically geared to cut you slack, women are genetically geared to cut your throat.
May 26th, 2012 10:55 PM
I believe that locking the unloaded weapons in a locked container and in your trunk as per FOPA regs. you should be ok passing through sovereign tribal lands, keep the stops to a minimum and don't advertise the presence of the weapons and you should have no problems.
June 1st, 2012 10:47 PM
Well.. Good luck trying to get a straight answer!!!!
On Thursday, I decided to call the Navajo Nation and just ask what I needed to do.
So, I called the number on the website... Got told that they did not know, call this number at the Navajo parks and Rec office...
So I called that number.... Got told that that was not their issue... Told me to call the Navajo museum... (really?? the MUSEUM??) So, I called the Museum... No answer (no voicemail) at 10:30 am...Called back at 1:00pm.."well, I don't know why they told you to call us.. Try the PD..."
So, I called the PD... Lady had no clue what I was talking about even using simple words... and transferred me to an Officer....
Apparently, the Navajo Nation does not believe in voicemail... I let it ring about 25 times... Nothing....
ARGH!!! The Hell with it... I am just going to play it by ear and do what I think is right....
Now, don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for the Indian Nations and their customs. But I feel like I just dealt with 3 or 4 "Peggy" types from that darn Capitol One Commercials!!!!
June 2nd, 2012 11:00 AM
The dozen or so lands I've looked into (in past years), I have yet to find one that clearly does welcome legal carry by non-residents on their lands. The way I've treated such places is as though they were another country. Before I've gone there, I've checked to confirm, and if I could not confirm it's allowable/approved then I've traveled some other way around the place. Seemed the safest approach.
Originally Posted by outlawvrod
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
June 3rd, 2012 10:24 AM
catt101- there is a listing of police departments in the Navajo Nation on their website. I called every one and spoke to the local chief. The long and short of it is that you will not get 100% consistent answers. The bottom line was that to be on the safest side, keep them unloaded and locked in the trunk if your vehicle has one. Also, what I did just in case was to choose to take a couple of guns which I had sales receipts for with my name on them. I made copies of these and brought them with me to provide proof of ownership.
ccw9mm- just not possible to bypass the Navajo Nation in NM/AZ unless you want to take an extra day or two to go around. It's that large. While I certainly did not like disarming, I did what was required by their laws just in case.
June 3rd, 2012 04:14 PM
Thanks for the info 74!!!
I guess I will have to do like you did and lock them up.
Going around is not possible... It happens that the things that I want my son to see are IN the Navajo lands. Places like Monument Valley ( I happen to be a big John Wayne fan, so I want to see these places too!), Shiprock, Taos, and the like.
June 3rd, 2012 11:50 PM
I wouldn't want to be a test case, so I've never carried on the Fort Peck Indian Reservation (though I have worked up there and felt like I SHOULD have been carrying). I did, however, find this nifty little piece of case law that says the following:
The bold and underlined section could be taken to mean that the law doesn't apply to anyone passing through the reservation, so our state permits should "in theory" be enough. Like I said though, I don't particularly want to be a test case so it stays in the vehicle when I'm up that way.
In the present case, the persons within the scope of III CCOJ 401 are Indians living on the Fort Peck Indian Reservation.
(See I CCOJ 106). The acts prohibited are the carrying of concealed weapons described in III CCOJ 401 without specific
governmental approval. The acts excepted are the carrying of those concealed weapons described in III CCOJ 401 with
specific governmental approval. The only governments one could reasonable infer that could give such approval would be the
Tribe and the BIA for the purposes of law enforcement. Furthermore, the Tribal Executive Board could adopt a system for the
issuance of permits to Indians on the Fort Peck Indian Reservation and has not adopted such a system. Therefore, III CCOJ
401 is not indefinite or vague on its face.
Here's the link:
June 4th, 2012 05:14 PM
Back when we needed permits to CC here in AZ, the instructors told us that the state laws did not apply on reservation lands. The problem was that around Phoenix, said reservation or tribal lands aren't always posted as such, and one of the major malls in the area is actually on land leased from the tribes!
But as far as traveling through known reservations or tribal lands goes, federal laws do apply, so you should be OK with the FOPA, but assume state laws are pretty much invalid.
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