Why the .380 won't protect you - Page 11

Why the .380 won't protect you

This is a discussion on Why the .380 won't protect you within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A .380 killed my niece some thirty odd years ago. Ammo has improved since then. I still miss her. She was my favorite....

Page 11 of 19 FirstFirst ... 789101112131415 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 165 of 272
Like Tree277Likes

Thread: Why the .380 won't protect you

  1. #151
    Member Array Sailor man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Olyphant Pa.
    Posts
    151
    A .380 killed my niece some thirty odd years ago. Ammo has improved since then. I still miss her. She was my favorite.


  2. #152
    Distinguished Member Array BurgerBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Western Kentucky
    Posts
    1,720
    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor man View Post
    A .380 killed my niece some thirty odd years ago. Ammo has improved since then. I still miss her. She was my favorite.
    Sorry to hear about that. I can tell you loved her.
    Vietnam Veteran - 1966-1970 USASA
    Carry Pistol. Glock 23, .40 Cal.
    Carry Pistol. Glock 19, 9mm.
    Give me a minute before I post again.

  3. #153
    Senior Member Array ironmike86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    593
    Imo .380 is better than nothing. Sometimes I can't carry my G27 and conceal it easily in hot weather. But I'm looking for a nice 9mm. Until then i carry my .380 Mustang if needed. If i need it I'm shooting and still fighting if i can't avoid trouble. I still have my knife and my hands.

  4. #154
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,172
    Quote Originally Posted by BurgerBoy View Post
    I guess what we need is for someone here to volunteer to be shot with a .380 hollow point a couple of times and then say that it will not hurt and stop someone.
    Of course no one is standing in front of it. I can tell you from personal experience that these small calibers may not stop a fight. What can you tell us from personal experience? In your last shooting, did a 380 stop them right then at that very second? How many shootings were you in with a 380 where you have enough data to compare? How many people do you know that have shot other people with a 380 (or any handgun for that matter) where they stopped right then and there?

    Please tell me, when was the last time you went hand on with a meth addict that had a psychotic break? When you were, how easy was he to control or stop? I can tell you how easy that is since I have personal experience in the matter…… It is extremely hard and the chance that a 380 will STOP them is at best 50/50. It's not guaranteed with any handgun caliber, but we at least have odds in our factor with larger calibers, not a hit or miss.

    Education is the key here as is personal experience. Watching Rob Pinkus on the internet IS NOT experience, nor is what the handgun manufacturer states on their site. This is VERY DANGEROUS when people spread erroneous information that they heard somewhere but didn't witness and it's just childish to talk about standing in front of bullets.

    KILLING AND STOPPING ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Shooting the little girl behind the counter of the local gas station is very, very different than shooting the drug addict that is no longer living in reality, no longer feels pain and will stop at nothing to get what he needs. They are so different that you really can't even compare them.

    Shooting some innocent girl in the chest, she'll likely drop to the ground and bleed out with the only feelings or thoughts at that time being fear and disbelief. Shoot a tweaker trying to kill you for your wallet and that same exact bullet in the same exact place may very well not even be noticed for the first 10 seconds. Has anyone talking about this stuff ever seen a real shooting? Even on video? Rounds are launched into some dirtbag and he often DOES NOT go down. Many times they even continue to fight. This is a very real possibility.

    If I listed just off the top of my head the stories I know of where someone was killed or seriously injured by another who already had fatal wounds, it would take hours. Look at the school shootings. There was a couple times where teachers had fatal wounds but continued to barricade their classroom door with their bodies. They died, but fought until the last minute.

    Please stop. Real life and TV are two different things. People don't just quit like we want. If that was the case, there'd be no caliber debates.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  5. #155
    Member Array ponchsox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    472
    The idea that a .380 won't protect you is horse %$#&. The round is very close to a 9mm round. Proper placement, like anything else, is crucial.

  6. #156
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,172
    Quote Originally Posted by ponchsox View Post
    The idea that a .380 won't protect you is horse %$#&. The round is very close to a 9mm round. Proper placement, like anything else, is crucial.
    Who said it won't protect you? It is not very close to a 9mm. Where are you people getting your info? From BugGun.com? Talk about taking things out of context. Of course it will protect you to an extent, but it is NOT likely to just stop bad people from doing bad things at that very moment.

    I have seen first hand from inches away what MAY happen when you put a smaller handgun bullet through someone's face. The fight eventually stopped, but that may have been helped along though by the fight itself.

    Certainly, shot placement is absolutely key. Can you guarantee me during a hand-on fight that you will deliver the rounds you may be able to get off exactly where you want them? Things go funky during a life or death encounter. Relying on shot placement during a fight is about as silly as relying on bullet expansion.

    What's interesting is the people that most defend caliber choice are the people that spend the LEAST time training.
    sgb likes this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  7. #157
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,917
    All I can do is state from my personal experience, has been to see several people killed by .380 (maybe 5 or 6). Of those, the only one who probably died instantaneously was a guy shot in the head with a .380. The others who died, I don't know how long they took to die, but they were dead by the time we got to the scene.

    I have also seen several who were shot and survived the .380. Of those who survived... It's my understanding from the police, most of them stopped what they were doing. A couple people continued to run away for a short distance to escape their attacker (they were robbery victims).

    Would they have been able to continue on with a fight? Probably... But none of their "hearts" seemed to be into fighting. All of them were pretty much down and bleeding and just waiting for the ambulance to arrive.

    What does all of this mean? Not a whole lot of anything other than anecdotal data points from what I've seen.

    I still won't carry a .380 as a primary weapon. However, I don't have a problem carrying one as a BUG because of their size. As a matter of fact, I just bought the M&P Shield because I've been tempted to carry my LCP as a primary on occasion. The Shield is slated to replace the LCP as my BUG and as something I can also carry as a primary.

    Again, in my opinion and based on my experience, if the .380 doesn't kill you... It will likely take the desire to fight out of them. But you can't count on that.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #158
    Member Array ponchsox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    472
    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Who said it won't protect you? It is not very close to a 9mm. Where are you people getting your info? From BugGun.com? Talk about taking things out of context. Of course it will protect you to an extent, but it is NOT likely to just stop bad people from doing bad things at that very moment.

    I have seen first hand from inches away what MAY happen when you put a smaller handgun bullet through someone's face. The fight eventually stopped, but that may have been helped along though by the fight itself.

    Certainly, shot placement is absolutely key. Can you guarantee me during a hand-on fight that you will deliver the rounds you may be able to get off exactly where you want them? Things go funky during a life or death encounter. Relying on shot placement during a fight is about as silly as relying on bullet expansion.

    What's interesting is the people that most defend caliber choice are the people that spend the LEAST time training.
    OP said it won't protect you. That is what I am replying to. Are there better options? Of course. And you are correct, it depends on the situation.

  9. #159
    Distinguished Member Array RevolvingMag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Rock Hill, SC- Across Town From Where All the Homicides Happen
    Posts
    1,266
    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Of course no one is standing in front of it. I can tell you from personal experience that these small calibers may not stop a fight. What can you tell us from personal experience? In your last shooting, did a 380 stop them right then at that very second? How many shootings were you in with a 380 where you have enough data to compare? How many people do you know that have shot other people with a 380 (or any handgun for that matter) where they stopped right then and there?

    Please tell me, when was the last time you went hand on with a meth addict that had a psychotic break? When you were, how easy was he to control or stop? I can tell you how easy that is since I have personal experience in the matter…… It is extremely hard and the chance that a 380 will STOP them is at best 50/50. It's not guaranteed with any handgun caliber, but we at least have odds in our factor with larger calibers, not a hit or miss.

    Education is the key here as is personal experience. Watching Rob Pinkus on the internet IS NOT experience, nor is what the handgun manufacturer states on their site. This is VERY DANGEROUS when people spread erroneous information that they heard somewhere but didn't witness and it's just childish to talk about standing in front of bullets.

    KILLING AND STOPPING ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Shooting the little girl behind the counter of the local gas station is very, very different than shooting the drug addict that is no longer living in reality, no longer feels pain and will stop at nothing to get what he needs. They are so different that you really can't even compare them.

    Shooting some innocent girl in the chest, she'll likely drop to the ground and bleed out with the only feelings or thoughts at that time being fear and disbelief. Shoot a tweaker trying to kill you for your wallet and that same exact bullet in the same exact place may very well not even be noticed for the first 10 seconds. Has anyone talking about this stuff ever seen a real shooting? Even on video? Rounds are launched into some dirtbag and he often DOES NOT go down. Many times they even continue to fight. This is a very real possibility.

    If I listed just off the top of my head the stories i know of where someone was killed or seriously injured by another who already had fatal wounds, it would take hours. Look at the school shootings. There was a couple times where teachers had fatal wounds but continued to barricade their classroom door with their bodies. They dies, but fought until the last minute.

    Please stop. Real life and TV are two different things. People don't just quit like we want. If that was the case, there'd be no caliber debates.
    Adrenaline does amazing things. It can make the human body 'invincible' for a few minutes if it's flowing strong enough. Then you add in narcotics... it can get pretty nasty- at that point you could hit someone with a .500Mag, and it might not take them down for a few precious seconds unless you hit them somewhere important.

    Quote Originally Posted by ponchsox View Post
    The idea that a .380 won't protect you is horse %$#&. The round is very close to a 9mm round. Proper placement, like anything else, is crucial.
    That's like saying a .38spl is like a .357Mag; yeah, its pretty much the same size but the punch behind it is quite different. And .357Mag, is the only '9mm' I'll carry for SD.
    "Rock and load, lock and roll... what's it matter? FIRE!!"

    "Gun control means hitting your target every time."

    Please take everything I say with at least one grain of salt- I am a very sarcastic person with a very dry sense of humor.

  10. #160
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,933
    Quote Originally Posted by MP9NewMexico View Post
    Attachment 58585

    You're walking home after work. It's dark. A man of this size suprises you, jumps you from an alley, and pulls a knife. You have a few seconds to react.
    You pull your .380 and his fat stops them. You die.
    I have a rule of thumb to determine if a type of round is good enough for self defense... If you wouldn't stand in front of it, it's good enough

  11. #161
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,172
    Sure it can take the desire to fight out of them, but relying on that is just crazy. Now, for all the ones you've seen or heard of stop fighting, I've heard or seen just as many that didn't stop fighting or still rattled of a few rounds as they took off. Here in South Texas, we have some nasty tweakers.

    Now, having said my part, I once had a guy coming at me with a crowbar and as soon as I cleared the holster, he was running faster than anyone I've ever seen in the opposite direction. He desire to fight was GONE.

    It's the relying on a small caliber (any normal handgun caliber actually) to STOP a fight. It's the utter confusion of dead and stopped that bothers me the most here. People hear these stories about others dying from small calibers, so that MUST mean it's a fight stopper. That's the insanity here that is being repeated far to often.
    Bark'n likes this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  12. #162
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,172
    The other problem I see here is too many don't understand that 10 seconds in a fight is very different than it is in normal daily life.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  13. #163
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,172
    Quote Originally Posted by ponchsox View Post
    OP said it won't protect you. That is what I am replying to. Are there better options? Of course. And you are correct, it depends on the situation.
    You are correct. I thought you were referring to me there. I agree with you on that point and certainly do not agree with the OP that it won't protect you. I get a little heated about this after what I've experienced and after reading all the comments from people with admittedly zero training or experience that are stating opinions as facts (not referring to you in any way here).
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  14. #164
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,917
    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Sure it can take the desire to fight out of them, but relying on that is just crazy. Now, for all the ones you've seen or heard of stop fighting, I've heard or seen just as many that didn't stop fighting or still rattled of a few rounds as they took off. Here in South Texas, we have some nasty tweakers.

    Now, having said my part, I once had a guy coming at me with a crowbar and as soon as I cleared the holster, he was running faster than anyone I've ever seen in the opposite direction. He desire to fight was GONE.

    It's the relying on a small caliber (any normal handgun caliber actually) to STOP a fight. It's the utter confusion of dead and stopped that bothers me the most here. People hear these stories about others dying from small calibers, so that MUST mean it's a fight stopper. That's the insanity here that is being repeated far to often.
    I agree with you Jon. As I pointed out, all my data is purely anecdotal evidence. Certainly nothing empirical as it is merely from my myopic experience with it.

    Also, a vast majority of my shooting incidents occurred when I worked in Kansas City, and that was years before meth came on the scene and we have a larger percentage of those who are "jacked up" and violent at the same time.
    jonconsiglio likes this.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #165
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,172
    Bark'n, we also know people in Kansas City are weaker than average, so it's not all that surprising! ;)
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

Page 11 of 19 FirstFirst ... 789101112131415 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

.380 one shot stop
,
can a .380 kill
,
can a .380 kill a person
,
can a .380 stop someone
,
cob p-380
,

doctacdad

,

how much damage can a 380 do

,
m&p shield 40 for sale
,
m&p shield 40 recoil
,

m&p shield for sale

,

tnoutdoors9 380

,
will a .380 stop a person
Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors