Why the .380 won't protect you

This is a discussion on Why the .380 won't protect you within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Oh crap! I've been trusting my life to a bullet that can't even stop a hypothetical attacker!? How could I have been so stupid?...

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Thread: Why the .380 won't protect you

  1. #61
    Member Array Moops's Avatar
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    Oh crap! I've been trusting my life to a bullet that can't even stop a hypothetical attacker!? How could I have been so stupid?
    TN_Mike likes this.
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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP9NewMexico View Post
    I like TN outdoors 9. He does a good job. But some guy using questionable gel (Sim-test is NOT ballistic gelatin) that he recycles between each use is hardly reliable results. Do you know why the big companies use ballistic gelatin? It is identical density to pig muscle, which is about 99% the density of human muscle.

    You guys can carry whatever you want. I'll stick to something that actually meets and exceeds FBI requirements. Plus do you REALLY and honestly think that a 90gr .380 moving at, maybe 1000 fps, has what it takes to smash through a sternum, rib, or skull bone to hit something vital? I think the .380 is a fantasy for CCW; people want to believe it's able to protect them and it's small so they carry it. Tell me one military force in the world that issues .380 as their main sidearm.
    Yes, I have seen it personally several times. In fact, the last time I saw a guy shot in the head with a .380 he was deader than a doornail.

    As far as tnoutdoors9's testing goes, it replicated the International Wound Ballistics Associations (IWBA) standard tests which also includes more layers of denim material than the FBI's wound test goes. And it is common practice for all of them to melt down and reuse the gelatin the gelatin they use. Every test he does he performs a calibration test of the media using a BB gun fired into the gelatin, exactly as the FBI and IWBA does, showing the media is within consistent specs.

    Also, any ballistics expert or forensics pathologist will tell you, that bullet penetration is hardly the determining factor in how effective a bullets performance will be in determining stopping power. The standard ballistics test is merely one standardized attempt to achieve measurable data on a consistent basis.

    To dismiss tnoutdoors9 testing data out of hand shows a general level of arrogance, especially since you offer nothing to support your conclusions. If anything, he is totally consistent in his testing methodologies and admits himself, he is merely providing consistent data points for the person to evaluate.

    I am certainly not defending the .380 but I have absolutely no evidence to castigate it's performance they way you have chosen to do so, based on no evidence or experience.
    -Bark'n
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  4. #63
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    MP9.

    Tell me one military force in the world that issues .380 as their main sidearm.

    Well militaries worldwide are restricted by laws and protocals of the Geneva and Hague Conventions to FMJ ammo, furthermore in the military the handgun is a secondary weapon for most and is got given high priority in stopping power as long as it is reliable in whatever weapon they are carrying. Since you asked though Germany, Spain, Italy and in some cases the US militaries all used the .380 aka the 9mm kurtz at one time or the other. The Soviet Union used and still uses in some cases the 9x18 Makarov round.

    Just as has been stated here any handgun round can fail to stop the fat knife guy or a skinny crackhead guy whether it be a .22 or a .44 mag. I don't want to get shot with any of them. A handgun/firearm is the ultimate pain compliance tool but what hurts me may not hurt you. Personally I thought the testing with the pigs head was pretty damn impressive. Through the head and into 2-3 water jugs, bullet held together and got a lot of expansion. You can't ask for more than that.
    asin9ne and RevolvingMag like this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  5. #64
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    castigate

    That sounds painful
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    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  6. #65
    Member Array CaptainHaplo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    The Soviet Union used and still uses in some cases the 9x18 Makarov round.
    I have one of these and I am comfortable with its stopping power.

    @OP - No, a single round may not do the trick (regardless of caliber), but I can assure you that I am not going to fire once and wait for a the BG to fall down. DT'ing is a skill worth learning, but if I have to pull the trigger once in a situation, I am not going to stop until the BG is down or I run dry. The reason I personally like the M is because of its accuracy. Hitting your target is the most important thing if you have to use your firearm. I'd rather hit my target with a .25 (though I really don't think that can be done - I am not sure that bullets actually leave the barrel on those things....) than miss with a .45 any day of the week. After all, its not the sound my firearm makes that is going to stop the BG.

    As for "penetration" - a 9x18 100gr cutpoint will penetrate fine. Not only that - it will expand quite a bit - doing plenty of damage. If I am firing, I don't care if the guy flies backward 5 feet like in a movie - as long as he hits the ground dead before he gets to me, job done.

    Lastly - if your aiming for belly fat - get to the range more often. It might be a bigger target, but either go center mass or for the braincase - your going to do a lot more "stopping" damage when you hit that way.
    tacman605 likes this.

  7. #66
    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    I use hornady critical defense with my .380... I don't care how big you are.. my 6+1 shots will stop you.. Stupid topic, not sure why this is still up here.
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  8. #67
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP9NewMexico View Post
    Attachment 58585

    You're walking home after work. It's dark. A man of this size suprises you, jumps you from an alley, and pulls a knife. You have a few seconds to react.
    You pull your .380 and his fat stops them. You die.
    I aim for the chest not the stomach.

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  9. #68
    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    I aim for the chest not the stomach.

    Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
    Gotta love these hypothetical questions... If it's a fat guy with a knife apparently we are not capable of walking/running away. And to your comment, I'm sure OP would say his manboobs would stop the bullet.. moobs? mewbs... yeah mewbs...
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  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burns View Post
    I use hornady critical defense with my .380... I don't care how big you are.. my 6+1 shots will stop you.. Stupid topic, not sure why this is still up here.
    Provided that you're on target, that your bullets reach the vitals and the other guy doesn't punch your ticket too.
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  11. #70
    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgb View Post
    Provided that you're on target, that your bullets reach the vitals and the other guy doesn't punch your ticket too.
    From 2-3 feet away (typical self-defense distance) it would be hard to miss and if for some reason that didn't work I would be runnin' (and probably thinking I shoulda brought my 9mm 17+1...) :p
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  12. #71
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    Absolute nonsense. Double tap to center mass, followed by one to the head and one to the groin if necessary. Maybe the original author is a troll, or maybe he is offering to test the theory?

  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP9NewMexico View Post
    Attachment 58585

    You're walking home after work. It's dark. A man of this size suprises you, jumps you from an alley, and pulls a knife. You have a few seconds to react.
    You pull your .380 and his fat stops them. You die.
    Change the last sentence to "you pull your rock from your pocket---yada yada. You die. That I understand. Your comment on a 380 is argumentative at best.
    sd976 likes this.

  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP9NewMexico View Post
    Attachment 58585

    You're walking home after work. It's dark. A man of this size suprises you, jumps you from an alley, and pulls a knife. You have a few seconds to react.
    You pull your .380 and his fat stops them. You die.
    Well regardless of caliber, I'm shooting COM not COB (center of belly). While .380 isn't my first choice for carry, I have no problem carrying one.
    sd976 and sixgun like this.
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  15. #74
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    When I first saw the topic, I thought it was gonna be like "Captain Chris's Close Combat Training" you have seen and know the ads...

    "A 9mm won't save you!"

    I won't provide a link, but you could google it if you're interested...

    OTOH, here's a little .32 that saved a guy... Link to Story

    We're beyond caliber wars on DC... We're beyond heavy and slow vs. light and fast...

    However... you should know that a .50 from a DE whizzing by the head (within 4-6") of the fat guy will rip the head right off of his neck. Within 1 foot to 6" the shock wave will render him unconscious and disoriented for at least 24 minutes (this, by the way, is 3 times the national average for response times by police, so you should have plenty of time to use your cell phone and get a response).

    But, thank you for sharing your expertise... we haven't seen any such in a long time here... refreshing.
    MisterFleas likes this.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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  16. #75
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    Ahhhh caliber threads.

    Always an enjoyable waste of time.

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