dealing with the police

This is a discussion on dealing with the police within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Thanks Jeff22. Interesting and useful....

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Thread: dealing with the police

  1. #16
    Member Array mfcmb's Avatar
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    Thanks Jeff22. Interesting and useful.
    In the heat of the moment, what matters is what your body knows -- not what your mind knows.

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array DontTreadOnI's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum and I hope you find chances to learn and teach. I think you've somewhat took a swing and a miss with this one though. Only my opinion.
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    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

  4. #18
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    What I find disgusting,is that people will bash LEO's,but,let them be in need and they have no problem asking for their help,one side of the fence or the other people!
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff22 View Post
    A tip to the unaware or unfamiliar in dealing with the police: first of all, know who the police are! Know the difference between the city police, the county sheriff's department and the state troopers. They have slightly different but overlapping jurisdictions. Their cars are probably painted differently and they probably have different colored uniforms. Know who your primary service provider is! If you live near the border of your jurisdiction, know what the uniforms and the squad cars of the neighboring town look like. That isn't too hard -- just pay attention when driving around on your normal business, and then remember what you see. Neighboring jurisdictions back each other up all the time, and if one agency gets tied up on a major incident, the department next door may end up being primary responders to calls in that town. It happens all the time, and it is NOT evidence of a particular emergency nor of a government conspiracy . . .

    If you live in Hickory Hills and the Police Communications Center gets a 911 disconnect from your house, you may get the Hickory Hills PD or the Sheriff's Department or the State Police or cops from the next town or village over, depending upon the situation. It's not at all unusual.

    Any time you interact with the police, be truthful, don't have an attitude nor appear to be concealing information and your day will go a lot smoother. Almost always when we the police encounter somebody with a belligerent attitude, it's because they're trying to hide something. You don't have to offer information, but answer the legitimate questions that you are asked. If you appear to be trying to hide something, cops treat that the same way that sharks treat the smell of blood in the water . . .

    Just because you explained something to the call taker on the phone DOES NOT mean that information was ever passed on to the officer. If it’s really busy, they’ll just send the officer with a minimum of information and expect them to sort it out when they get there.

    If you live on the boundary of multiple jurisdictions, be aware of where the incident happened and which police department you called. If you have called to report an incident, and then just flag down a passing police car, the cops inside (a.) may not have received the call yet and so have no idea what you’re talking about, or (b.) may be from another jurisdiction, possibly dispatched by a different comm center on a different radio frequency, and they may not know what you’re talking about, either.

    Just because you talked to a cop once about a particular situation does NOT mean that all cops everywhere will be familiar with the situation. We are not telepathically connected!

    If you reported a problem at midnight, don’t call back at eleven the next morning and expect to talk to the same officers. Individual police officers are not on 24/7. We do go home to sleep and conduct our personal lives from time to time.

    Pay attention to what agency the officer works for, and ask for their name and badge number or radio number or ID number. We get issued business cards to give to people we interact with. Get a business card from officer friendly and ask for the case number of the incident (if there is one), the address of occurrence and the case title, and write down the date. That way, if at some later time you need to make an inquiry, you'll have the information that you need.

    If they’re in plainclothes, feel free to ask to look at the officer’s credentials. Just keep in mind that you don't know what an authentic police ID card for that agency looks like. (I don't know what official ID cards for the surrounding agencies look like, either.)

    If somebody comes to your door in plainclothes, and they're a real cop, they're used to having people ask to see an ID, and may be used to having you phone dispatch to verify their identity, depending upon where you are. BE SURE YOU CALL THE RIGHT POLICE DEPARTMENT!
    Hey there Jeff22...Welcome to DC...

    I have to say, the first time I read your post, it kinda went all over me...BUT, after reading some of the comments of other members, I decided to go back and re read your OP. Ya know, other than being a brand NEW member, and presenting your post in a "lecture" type attitude to a group of grown adults that you obviously do not know, I have concluded that the majority of the information in your post was quite informative. Perhaps you might want to adjust your "Police Firing Instructor" approach to the folks here a bit. I'm sure you have a lot of good things to contribute. Although I'm NOT a LEO, I have many friends that are, and I take advantage of every opportunity I get to participate in things like Citizens Police Academies, ride alongs, etc, I always appreciate an opportunity to learn how LEOs think and approach their jobs. You have a tough job and I will be the first to give you the utmost respect, especially when it's earned. JMO
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    Hey there Jeff22...Welcome to DC...

    I have to say, the first time I read your post, it kinda went all over me...BUT, after reading some of the comments of other members, I decided to go back and re read your OP. Ya know, other than being a brand NEW member, and presenting your post in a "lecture" type attitude to a group of grown adults that you obviously do not know, I have concluded that the majority of the information in your post was quite informative. Perhaps you might want to adjust your "Police Firing Instructor" approach to the folks here a bit. I'm sure you have a lot of good things to contribute. Although I'm NOT a LEO, I have many friends that are, and I take advantage of every opportunity I get to participate in things like Citizens Police Academies, ride alongs, etc, I always appreciate an opportunity to learn how LEOs think and approach their jobs. You have a tough job and I will be the first to give you the utmost respect, especially when it's earned. JMO
    I did start my post with Welcome to the Forum!

  7. #21
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    Welcome to the forum, you will find a very diverse membership as others have mentioned. For the most part, I understand the points you are trying to make, and agree with a lot of it. Sometimes it's the simple things we all need to be reminded of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    . Simply put I will treat someone in the same fashion they treat me.
    I also disagree to a point with some of it. I'm not LEO, I do try to always look at things from the other persons perspective. I have personally dealt with the LEO feeling his "power" before, those were very few encounters. For the most part, the encounters have been without attitude, If your having a bad day, or feeling 10 feet tall today, don't expect me to accept being treated like a peasant when I have done nothing to warrant that.

    No, I don't believe because I pay taxes that "you work for me".
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
    If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand

  8. #22
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    First off, welcome to the forum !
    I did understand the post, but do want to add a few tidbits of info here, I was a military Leo many moons ago, so do understand quite a bit. Now here's a Maryland example of confusion.
    The players, ( MSP) Maryland state police, county police, county sheriff departments, and city police in several larger cities, park police, and Transit police. And I’m sure I’m missing some of the agencies. Now add Homeland security in some MD/VA/DC areas. I’m not aware of the Homeland Security folks jurisdiction related to highway enforcement but have noticed them out there using their code lights?. Maybe someone in the know will chime in here about that topic.
    Baltimore city has a sheriff’s department, but mostly do court type duty, prisoner transports, or at least that’s what I understand. Now add the metro departments between DC, VA and Md.
    Ok now add all the different city and county 911 dispatch centers, some you dial 911, and you never know what center will answer that call, but one of the first things they ask is what county are you in, if you don’t know, just add the delay, or sometimes unfortunately you get dropped, hung up on, and have to call again. Example, to get the Westminster State police, you don’t dial 911 you dial #77.
    So for anyone traveling through the state, beware, as it could be a real trip if you need help.
    This is provided for info and entertainment only, as most civilians don’t really know how the system is setup, they will just dial 911 and most of the time, it works out. But not always.
    Now for the attitudes of most of these Leo’s, it’s been my experience with those few that don’t know me or have not met me yet, as being very decent, polite and professional in every way.
    Now as we all know there is always one of two Leo’s out there that just do things different, some may have just come from a major bad scene, has seen way to much bad nasty stuff and has developed a very short fuse. Tread lightly with this guy/gal, go easy and maybe he/she will chill and realize you’re not the bad guy/perp, but just a normal citizen asking for help. Don’t tell the Leo to calm down ok lol ! It probably will NOT work! Can you say dig a bigger hole!
    Enjoy!

  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=

    No, I don't believe because I pay taxes that "you work for me".[/QUOTE]

    I do, but respectfully. That is why they are called civil servants. Just my opinion.

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  10. #24
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    Hi Jeff22, welcome to the forum. Thanks for the post & sharing some good information. Unless someone is in the "never say anything to the police" crowd, it is helpful to think about things like that BEFORE a LE encounter. When the stress level is up, many people don't think about the officer's name/ card or many other points you bring out. Thanks

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    I do, but respectfully. That is why they are called civil servants. Just my opinion.

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    Eric, I understand what you are saying, but my point is that some people believe that LEO exist to do their bidding. They exist to maintain the peace, and protect the citizens as best as they can. Not to settle petty squabbles and to arrest Joe Bubba because his drunk wife says he won't listen to her and she wants him put in jail.
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    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
    If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand

  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4my son View Post
    Eric, I understand what you are saying, but my point is that some people believe that LEO exist to do their bidding. They exist to maintain the peace, and protect the citizens as best as they can. Not to settle petty squabbles and to arrest Joe Bubba because his drunk wife says he won't listen to her and she wants him put in jail.
    LE job is not to protect us or keep the peace. Their job is to apprehend criminals that break the law, collect evidence to build a case for the prosecuting attorney. They may protect us and maintain the peace by enforcing laws. I am not trying to diminish their roles but I just hate hearing people say that they are here to protect us. I'm sure LEOs don't like the fact that people think they are here to protect us. The Supreme Court has also ruled that LE has no duty to protect individuals.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/po.../28scotus.html
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  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    I do, but respectfully. That is why they are called civil servants. Just my opinion.

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    I meen they work for the entire community, I am very grateful we have the best LEOs in the world for the most part. It is a thankless job at times.
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  14. #28
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    Jeff--
    First, let me say that I respect the job you guys do and respect the dangers of your job that you guys accept for (mostly) short pay. That said, let me offer you some advice for dealing with us guys.
    First, don't sit at the bottom of the hill radaring me on the road I drive to work at 6 am where the speed limit changes from 45 to 30 just to raise revenue. I am not endangering anyone on an empty road by being 10 mph over a ridiculous (and technically illegal) speed limit. Second, when you do stop me for that heinous infraction, don't ask me if I know how fast I was going, I'm not going to incriminate myself. Third, give me a warning, not a five year insurance rate increase. Push back against the supervisor who says you can only give x warnings per month. Fourth, be an advocate four our second amendment rights; we are on the same side against the bad guys. Fifth, don't be that macho guy who escalates rather than defuses situations--a little common sense and even a sense of humor goes a long way. Sixth, unless you have your flashies on, don't feel as if you have a right to violate the same traffic laws you hold us to. Seventh, if you are responding rapidly to an emergency, put your siren on as well as the lights. I know it's loud for you, but everyone around deserves a chance to get out of your way. Eighth, come to the range with us--maybe you can teach us something, maybe you can learn something. Ninth, don't be a hermit where you live. I have three police officers who live within half a mile of me and they are unknown to most of the neighborhood. Go to community events, coach your kid's sports, let people know you are one of them. And finally, get rid of the Gestapo uniforms.
    Faithfully submitted,
    Douglas C. Niedermeyer
    Sergeant at Arms
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  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    LE job is not to protect us or keep the peace. Their job is to apprehend criminals that break the law, collect evidence to build a case for the prosecuting attorney. They may protect us and maintain the peace by enforcing laws. I am not trying to diminish their roles but I just hate hearing people say that they are here to protect us. I'm sure LEOs don't like the fact that people think they are here to protect us. The Supreme Court has also ruled that LE has no duty to protect individuals.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/po.../28scotus.html
    actually Eric, my oath of office specifically says I have a duty to protect life and do my sworn duty, that sworn duty encompasses a lot of things as you mentioned, the USSC case was only done to show that individuals could not sue their local LE agency since they didn't save 'X' family member, I've busted my rear trying to save lives with vomit, feces, blood, spit, sweat (the first 4 from victims lol) on the uniform while doing it, we do have a duty to protect lives but the USSC says its not my job to be a person's 24/7 body guard....not trying to bust chops just trying to make a point
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    Hmmmmmmmmmm

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