COSTCO firearms policy - Page 15

COSTCO firearms policy

This is a discussion on COSTCO firearms policy within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by mcp1810 But private companies don't make "laws" only governments do. What they are doing is establishing a code of conduct for admission ...

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  1. #211
    Member Array Badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    But private companies don't make "laws" only governments do. What they are doing is establishing a code of conduct for admission to their property. Failure to follow that code of conduct once notified of such code could be taken by a court as meaning you do not have permission to be on that property. If that is the case you are trespassing. Trespassing while armed is a third degree felony in Florida. 810.08 (C)
    Play your games, take your chances.



    Gun ownership is not a federally protected class.
    You might want to read ORS 164.205, 164.245 and 164.265 and State v Holte. Unless you are aware of a particular statute or case law that says your right to carry supercedes a property owners rights, by knowingly carrying on private property against the owners wishes you are committing criminal trespass.
    Perhaps, but you must prove deliberate trespass and that most often involves extreme circumstance such as climbing a fence or some other physical barrier to gain entrance. Otherwise you must be asked/told to leave. Ignoring a warning to leave will get you a deliberate trespass and unless you make an issue of it, the first event is nothing more than a warning. You are not going to get a deliberate trespass in a store that is open for business if you are not asked to leave.
    The long and short of it is they cannot banish legal carry. Florida has no open carry and if they can tell by normal observation that you have a gun you are not concealing correctly. At that point you could argue illegal display, but not trespassing. To make a case for trespassing you would have to warn the offender first to leave. This is where the fact the gun buster signs have no weight of law comes into play. Warning you not to carry a gun is not legal in Florida, warning you not to trespass is. No gun signs do not equal no trespassing regardless of company policy. Can you point out any case law in Florida that would substantiate otherwise?
    The reality is if asked to leave you must and should. They cannot detain you and if you think that the local police are going to be in a rush to get to Coscos to deal with a trespasser you don't live in reality. Once your out the door there are no grounds for the police to investigate a trespass as you have left the property as required by law. Again illegal display of a firearm is another matter, however, Florida also has law that covers brief accidental display. The wind blows up up shirt or you reach for something on a high shelf and you holster is exposed in the process it is not illegal display. Printing is not illegal in Florida either.
    Consealed is consealed
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  2. #212
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badbullgator View Post
    Perhaps, but you must prove deliberate trespass and that most often involves extreme circumstance such as climbing a fence or some other physical barrier to gain entrance. Otherwise you must me asked/told to leave. Ignoring a warning to leave will get you a deliberate trespass and unless you make an issue of it, the first event is nothing more than a warning. You are not going to get a deliberate trespass in a store that is open for business if you are not asked to leave.
    The long and short of it is they cannot banish legal carry. Florida has no open carry and if they can tell by normal observation that you have a gun you are not concealing correctly. At that point you could argue illegal display, but not trespassing. To make a case for trespassing you would have to warn the offender first to leave. This is where the fact the gun buster signs have no weight of law comes into play. Warning you not to carry a gun is not legal in Florida, warning you not to trespass is. Do gun signs do not equal no trespassing regardless of company policy. Can you point out any case law in Florida that would substantiate otherwise?
    The reality is if asked to leave you must and should. Th cannot detain you and if you think that the local police are going to be in a rush to get to Coscos to deal with a trespasser you don't live in reality. Once your put the door there is no grounds for the police to investigate a trespass as you have left the property are required by law. Again illegal display of a firearm is another matter, however, Florida also has law that covers brief accidental display. The wind blows up up shirt or you reach for something on a high shelf and you holster is exposed in the process it is not illegal display. Printing is not illegal in Florida either.
    Consealed is consealed
    What reality are you living in? In that situation I am pretty sure the manager at COSTCO or where ever will say there is a guy with a GUN tresspassiing. I think that the word gun would get them much faster than you think.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
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  3. #213
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Can't detain you? Who told you that?
    The 2012 Florida Statutes

    Title XLVI
    CRIMES Chapter 810
    BURGLARY AND TRESPASS View Entire Chapter

    810.08 Trespass in structure or conveyance.—(1) Whoever, without being authorized, licensed, or invited, willfully enters or remains in any structure or conveyance, or, having been authorized, licensed, or invited, is warned by the owner or lessee of the premises, or by a person authorized by the owner or lessee, to depart and refuses to do so, commits the offense of trespass in a structure or conveyance.
    (2)(a) Except as otherwise provided in this subsection, trespass in a structure or conveyance is a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
    (b) If there is a human being in the structure or conveyance at the time the offender trespassed, attempted to trespass, or was in the structure or conveyance, the trespass in a structure or conveyance is a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
    (c) If the offender is armed with a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or arms himself or herself with such while in the structure or conveyance, the trespass in a structure or conveyance is a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. Any owner or person authorized by the owner may, for prosecution purposes, take into custody and detain, in a reasonable manner, for a reasonable length of time, any person when he or she reasonably believes that a violation of this paragraph has been or is being committed, and he or she reasonably believes that the person to be taken into custody and detained has committed or is committing such violation. In the event a person is taken into custody, a law enforcement officer shall be called as soon as is practicable after the person has been taken into custody. The taking into custody and detention by such person, if done in compliance with the requirements of this paragraph, shall not render such person criminally or civilly liable for false arrest, false imprisonment, or unlawful detention.
    (3) As used in this section, the term “person authorized” means any owner or lessee, or his or her agent, or any law enforcement officer whose department has received written authorization from the owner or lessee, or his or her agent, to communicate an order to depart the property in the case of a threat to public safety or welfare.
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  4. #214
    Member Array Badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Can't detain you? Who told you that?
    Did you read section one? Did you read my statement? Clearly "Is warned" by the owner and refuses to depart constitutes trespass. You must be warned and if warned you must leave. They must warn. Without warning detaining is not going to happen. I also suspect cosco or any other store is going to detain someone with a consealed weapon. Reading is fundamental, you should try it.
    I will also contend that a business does in fact invite you in. I would be willing to fight that one. Besides, what the hell don't you get that unless you are a complete ******* nobody should ever know you have a consealed weapon. I have been shopping there for close to 20 years and have never had the security guards with their X-ray glasses detect that I carry
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  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    What reality are you living in? In that situation I am pretty sure the manager at COSTCO or where ever will say there is a guy with a GUN tresspassiing. I think that the word gun would get them much faster than you think.
    I would bet otherwise. If I am asked to leave I will do so and it will take no more than two minutes for me to walk out and be in my car heading out. Furthermore, the majority of our LEO's are well informed on cc laws in Florida. Arriving to possibly find a person with no displayed weapon will usually result in asking for a permit and a thanks have a nice day.
    Officer - do you have a CC?
    Gun owner - yes, here it is?
    Officer -thank you
    Officer to business owner- did you warn them to leave?
    Store owner - no but I have a no gun sign
    Officer - did you warn him to leave?
    Store owner can answer yes or no
    If no, officer says to gun owner have a nice day
    If yes, officer ask "did they comply"
    The answer to this should always be yes, otherwise you have committed the crime of trespass. If the answer is yes and you are standing in the parking lot in the process of leaving you have complied and are not trespassing.

    Two weeks ago we had this exact thing happen at our local movie theater. They were searching purses and a guy who was with his wife implied he was carrying. The theater asked him to leave and he did. The theater manager walked outside with him and told the sheriff deputy in the parking lot that the guy had a gun. The man had a CCW. No action was taken and the couple left. The local new got a whiff of it and contacted the DA about it and we're told no gun violation had occured and no trespass laws were broken. Case closed

  6. #216
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badbullgator View Post
    Did you read section one? Did you read my statement? Clearly "Is warned" by the owner and refuses to depart constitutes trespass. You must be warned and if warned you must leave. They must warn. Without warning detaining is not going to happen. I also suspect cosco or any other store is going to detain someone with a consealed weapon. Reading is fundamental, you should try it.
    I will also contend that a business does in fact invite you in. I would be willing to fight that one. Besides, what the hell don't you get that unless you are a complete ******* nobody should ever know you have a consealed weapon. I have been shopping there for close to 20 years and have never had the security guards with their X-ray glasses detect that I carry
    Yes I did read section (1) Did you? Costco is not a typical business like a movie theater. Costco is a private club. To be a member of that club you agree to abide by their rules. So tell me, who "authorized, licensed, or invited" someone to enter their store in violation of their rules? Or is it your position that you are not willfully entering their store?
    Speaking of reading, how about grammar? After the word "conveyence" what do those commas before and after the word "or" mean in (1)?
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  7. #217
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badbullgator View Post
    I would bet otherwise. If I am asked to leave I will do so and it will take no more than two minutes for me to walk out and be in my car heading out. Furthermore, the majority of our LEO's are well informed on cc laws in Florida. Arriving to possibly find a person with no displayed weapon will usually result in asking for a permit and a thanks have a nice day.
    Officer - do you have a CC?
    Gun owner - yes, here it is?
    Officer -thank you
    Officer to business owner- did you warn them to leave?
    Store owner - no but I have a no gun sign
    Officer - did you warn him to leave?
    Store owner can answer yes or no
    If no, officer says to gun owner have a nice day
    If yes, officer ask "did they comply"
    The answer to this should always be yes, otherwise you have committed the crime of trespass. If the answer is yes and you are standing in the parking lot in the process of leaving you have complied and are not trespassing.

    Two weeks ago we had this exact thing happen at our local movie theater. They were searching purses and a guy who was with his wife implied he was carrying. The theater asked him to leave and he did. The theater manager walked outside with him and told the sheriff deputy in the parking lot that the guy had a gun. The man had a CCW. No action was taken and the couple left. The local new got a whiff of it and contacted the DA about it and we're told no gun violation had occured and no trespass laws were broken. Case closed
    You went on about a lot of nothing that I posted. All I said was that if there was a call that involved a gun most likely the LEO's arrive quickly. There knowledge of guns don't mean anything as far as the RESPONSE TIME which I was talking about.
    Anf, I nver said anythiing about the person getting aresseted.

    Your cute litttle dialogue has nothing to do with my post.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

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  8. #218
    Member Array Badbullgator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Yes I did read section (1) Did you? Costco is not a typical business like a movie theater. Costco is a private club. To be a member of that club you agree to abide by their rules. So tell me, who "authorized, licensed, or invited" someone to enter their store in violation of their rules? Or is it your position that you are not willfully entering their store?
    Speaking of reading, how about grammar? After the word "conveyence" what do those commas before and after the word "or" mean in (1)?
    810.08 Trespass in structure or conveyance.—(1) Whoever, without being authorized, licensed, or invited, willfully enters or remains in any structure or conveyance, or, having been authorized, licensed, or invited, is warned by the owner or lessee of the premises, or by a person authorized by the owner or lessee, to depart and refuses to do so, commits the offense of trespass in a structure or conveyance.

    You do not understand "is warned by the owner or lessee of the premises, or by a person authorized by the owner or lessee, to depart and refuses to do so, commits the offense of trespass in a structure or conveyance"? Without being warned to leave you don't commit the offense of trespass in a structure or conveyance.

    Must warn to leave. Signs carry NO weight in regard to legal carry in FLORIDA and as such are not a warning of trespass. Club, park or 7-11, No matter no weight to the sign and not a warning to leave. Even without a gun, a property that is posted as "no trespassing" must warn a person to leave. Signs alone are not a warning to leave. A trespassing sign is a warning not to enter, not a warning to leave. No gun signs are perhaps a warning not to enter, but not a warning to leave.

  9. #219
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badbullgator View Post
    You do not understand "is warned by the owner or lessee of the premises, or by a person authorized by the owner or lessee, to depart and refuses to do so, commits the offense of trespass in a structure or conveyance"? Without being warned to leave you don't commit the offense of trespass in a structure or conveyance.
    You do not understand the word "or". The warning to leave is only required if you have been authorized, licensed, or invited and then that permission is being rescinded.
    Must warn to leave. Signs carry NO weight in regard to legal carry in FLORIDA and as such are not a warning of trespass. Club, park or 7-11, No matter no weight to the sign and not a warning to leave. Even without a gun, a property that is posted as "no trespassing" must warn a person to leave. Signs alone are not a warning to leave. A trespassing sign is a warning not to enter, not a warning to leave. No gun signs are perhaps a warning not to enter, but not a warning to leave.
    So if they are a warning not to enter, but you enter in spite of that warning you do not have authorization, license or invitation.
    I take it you have not read the Florida Supreme Court's jury instructions on the matter.
    13.3 TRESPASS—IN STRUCTURE OR CONVEYANCE
    § 810.08, Fla. Stat.

    To prove the crime of Trespass in a [Structure] [Conveyance], the State must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

    Give a. for trespass and/or b. for trespass after warning to depart.
    a. 1. (Defendant) willfully entered or remained in a
    [structure] [conveyance].

    2. The [structure] [conveyance]
    was in the lawful possession of (person alleged).

    3. (Defendant’s) entering or remaining in the [structure] [conveyance] was without authorization, license, or invitation by (person alleged) or any other person authorized to give that permission.

    b. 1. (Defendant) had been authorized, licensed, or invited to
    enter or remain in a [structure] [conveyance].

    2. [The owner] [The lessee] [A person authorized by the owner
    or lessee] of the premises warned (defendant) to depart.

    3. (Defendant) refused to depart.

    Authority to enter or remain in a [structure] [conveyance] need not be given in express words. It may be implied from the circumstances. It is lawful to enter or remain in a [structure] [conveyance] of another if, under all the circumstances, a reasonable person would believe that [he] [she] had the permission of the owner or occupant.
    So would a reasonable person carrying a weapon believe they have permission of the owner or occupant to walk past a sign prohibiting weapons?
    Those are the current jury instructions dated February 9, 2012. Nowhere in "a" is your notice required. "a" are the jury instructions for trespass. "b" are the instructions for trespass after warning to depart.

    Of course if you have something more recent or more authoritative than the Florida Supreme Court jury instructions from seven months ago I would love to see it.
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  10. #220
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Yes I did read section (1) Did you? Costco is not a typical business like a movie theater. Costco is a private club. To be a member of that club you agree to abide by their rules. So tell me, who "authorized, licensed, or invited" someone to enter their store in violation of their rules? Or is it your position that you are not willfully entering their store?
    Speaking of reading, how about grammar? After the word "conveyence" what do those commas before and after the word "or" mean in (1)?
    And their "rules" (in this case, the terms and conditions of membership) do not prohibit firearms. Only a random, obscure post on a third-party website.
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  11. #221
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    A random obscure third party website that is the first hit to come up when you google "Costco weapons policy" That random site is contacted by Costco to host and provide other customer service related support.
    And as others have stated some stores are posted.
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  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire View Post
    And their "rules" (in this case, the terms and conditions of membership) do not prohibit firearms. Only a random, obscure post on a third-party website.
    AND local signage, as in AZ.
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  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    A random obscure third party website that is the first hit to come up when you google "Costco weapons policy" That random site is contacted by Costco to host and provide other customer service related support.
    And as others have stated some stores are posted.
    Posted stores notwithstanding, it's not in the agreement you sign when you get your card. And even if Costco has an arrangement with them, the third party is not Costco.
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  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    I don't use any of the big box stores, however Sam's Club has the same policy as their parent company, Walmart, which is gun friendly.
    You can't carry in any of the walmarts around me.
    Our House Is Protected By The Good Lord And A gun. You Might Meet Both Of Them If You Show Up Inside My House Uninvited.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    You do not understand the word "or". The warning to leave is only required if you have been authorized, licensed, or invited and then that permission is being rescinded.

    So if they are a warning not to enter, but you enter in spite of that warning you do not have authorization, license or invitation.
    I take it you have not read the Florida Supreme Court's jury instructions on the matter.

    So would a reasonable person carrying a weapon believe they have permission of the owner or occupant to walk past a sign prohibiting weapons?
    Those are the current jury instructions dated February 9, 2012. Nowhere in "a" is your notice required. "a" are the jury instructions for trespass. "b" are the instructions for trespass after warning to depart.

    Of course if you have something more recent or more authoritative than the Florida Supreme Court jury instructions from seven months ago I would love to see it.

    Man you are dense. NO GUN SIGNS CARRY ZERO LEGAL WEIGHT IN FLORIDA, therefore the answer is YES and person legally authorized to carry in Florida would be correct in assuming they had permission to enter. SIGNS CARRY NO WEIGHT OF LAW.

    So does a no smoking sign mean that anyone carrying cigarettes not have the permission of the owner to enter? At my business we have a no perfume sign on the door because it affects the work we do. So anyone entering our building with aftershave, perfume of what have you is guilty of trespass? Nonsense

    We, gun carriers in Florida just fought this battle with the state regarding sings banning guns by local governments and the state ruled that ONLY THE STATE MAY ESTABLISH GUN LAW, INCLUDING PROHIBITING LEAGAL CARRY IN ANY PLACE NOT PROHIBITED SPECIFICALLY BY THE STATE. Signs mean nothing and cannot warn a person to do something the state specifically allows. A sign is not a warning! Perhaps in your state or states where gun buster signs have weight of law you are correct. Even private property posted with signs saying no treats sing require a warning be for a violation in this state.

    I am done with this one. Find any case law that involves anyone correctly carrying consealed that has been convicted of trespass th a firearm for not leaving a store with a sign. Go on......have at it......find some or I am done with this one

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