This is a discussion on Willing to kill vs willing to die? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by farronwolf The question as posed isn't all that easy to understand or answer. Am I willing to kill to protect myself, my ...
Stack 2 is bigger than 3 - There are more things for which I'd kill than die for
Stack 3 is bigger than stack 2 - There are more things for which I'd die than kill
Stack 2 and 3 are equal
There's nothing in stack 2 or 3 - if I'm willing to die for it, I'm willing to kill
I'm not willing to die or kill for anything
Then there's the stack of coins with which I'd be willing to buy something in the vending machine.
Cogito, ergo armatum sum.
I think, therefore I am armed.
(Don Mann, The Modern Day Gunslinger; the ultimate handgun training manual)
I'm not "willing" to die for anyone. I might be forced into it, but willing? That's paramount to suicide to me.
Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield
Didn't vote in the poll, but this seems like a easy decision, or at least it should be. I carry a firearm to defend me and mine. If anyone try's to do either any harm, I'll put um down in a heartbeat and not think twice about it. IMO, to hesitate with that decision could cost ya, so one should become comfortable with that choice before ever deciding to carry a weapon for defense. JMO, YMMVWilling to kill vs willing to die?
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson
Fascinating results, particularly the 'I'm willing to kill but not die for' camp. Introduce deadly force, and all bets are off...decide that you're willing to kill but not die for your car by drawing on the guy who's in the process of stealing it? He may have other plans, as perhaps he wasn't willing to kill for the car, but is willing to kill to avoid being shot or arrested.
I'm in the camp that you shouldn't be pulling a firearm out unless you're willing to risk your own life, as pulling it out makes you a rather important person in the vicinity. In one course I've taken, they tell the story of being at Seaworld and dropping your expensive camera/jewelry/etc. into the shark tank during feeding time and how crazy everyone would look at you if you decided to dive in. Then they contrast it with the same scenario and your 3 year old falling into the tank, and everyone looking at you crazy if you DIDN'T jump in. The analogy is their suggested litmus test to think about what's really important enough to use a gun for, and how well you'd be able to defend your action in a civil lawsuit.
Here's another oblique angle on this;
OldVet and I take exception to the willingness to die. I can see where many members construe this to mean that they'd give up their life, in exchange for saving the life of a loved one. However, this conclusion disregards that something or someone is taking a life (be it yours or your loved one). Hence, I prefer focus my attention on the thing that is causing the risk and engaging it with the attitude that I will win and not need to sacrifice my life, nor my loved one's life.
It's all in the attitude. I may lose my life in exchange for saving another, but it will not be in a 'willing' fashion (more like in a screaming, kicking and cussing fashion).
'Clinging to my guns and religion
The wording of the questions and the choices in the poll limit the responses to answers that do not represent my feelings on the subject.
I don't want to kill anyone. If I, or a loved one is attacked, I will do whatever is necessary to protect them and/or myself, whatever it takes to stop the attack. It would never be my goal to kill anyone. If the attacker dies as a result of me protecting myself it's nobody's fault but his.
I don't want to die, but there could be some scenarios where if that was the only way to protect my family, I would hope I could do that. Easy to speculate on such things sitting behind a keyboard, in the real world who knows?
How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual; as a trustworthy & productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded over, controlled, supervised and taken care of.
OK, I know I nit pick at the meaning of words sometimes but sometimes I just go with the OP's intent. Other wise it ends up being like Clintons' Impeachment when he saidI thought it was pretty simple and straight forward once I figured out the monetary situationdepends on the definition of 'is
A long time ago I made my mind up in that if you are trying to kill me I will do my dammest to take you with me, I will not go willing. Who knows I may be the last man standing.
Put me in a boat trussed up to drop me off in deep water, I will be trying to knock the bottom of the boat out so that we both can go together.
Scenario: A BG is holding one of my loved one hostage stating "put down my weapon or they will kill the hostage."
My thought process is: If you try to kill or harm anyone that is part of my family you are committing sucide. I will do whatever is required to protect them.
If I put down my weapon then you can kill me and the hostage. If you kill the hostage I am going to kill you. There is no assurance that when facing someone that is willing to kill that surrendering you weapon will allow anyone to live.
Where did this attitude come from? Love of family, USMC mind set and LEO training---- in that order.
To me stack 2 is much larger, personnal property is not worth a life. Truck, TV, Computer, all those things are not worth a human life. Now, my wifes or my kids life is much more valuable to me than a bad guys life or even my own. Those are three items that I would die for, nothing else is worth my taking a life over. The only exception may be a friend/bystander IF I fully aware of the situation, and know exactly what was going on and if was involved/witnessed the whole incident.
"Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.
Everybody get's it some day.
Do I win?
Until such a choice becomes The Choice; until one is face to face with it, everything is just talk and opinion. Though, it never hurts to know what you think you know.