May 15th, 2012 02:27 AM
Concealed carry Question
Ok i was reading another forum and...i have a medical condition 40% kidney function and IF I AM EVER HIT IN THE ABDOMEN (Stomach) area it MIGHT kill me or at the verry least put me in the Hospital for MORE surgery does this give me the right to pull AND OR SHOOT if i am ever cornered and alone ?
May 15th, 2012 02:54 AM
Know your state's laws Sir...Do you have a Stand Your Ground Law in your state?...Do you know what the definition is for "Disparity of force"...Read, read, and read some more, and then IF you can't answer your own question, then ask it again...If others give you an answer on here, then make sure they provide a reference for their answer...That would be my advice to you...
Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.
May 15th, 2012 03:10 AM
Keep in mind that this is not the place to legal advice. With that said........
Unfortunately there is no one right answer. As the First Sarge stated read and re-read your state law concerning the use of deadly force. While the law might sound simple when it states you have to be in fear of bodily harm or death to rule justified, sadly there is a fine line between a justified and not justified shooting. Not to make light of your medical condition it can not be used to shoot someone because you think you might be hit in the abdomen.
In my opinion I do not believe a criminal lawyer will give you a clear cut answer since there are too many variables to such a situation. Hopefully you will never get yourself in a situation that you feel the need to have to shoot someone. Unless you live/work in a bad area your chances are good you never will.
"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
--Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney
Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791
and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."
May 15th, 2012 03:11 AM
Here's the best $35 you'll ever spend. Buy this video, Judicious Use of Deadly Force by Massad Ayoob.
This is a two hour video excerpt taken directly from his 40 hour LFI-1 & MAG-40 deadly force classes. It goes in depth on the rules for using deadly force and explains in great detail (with numerous examples), on the subject of "disparity of force," and how it applies to being able to use deadly force in situations where you would otherwise not be allowed to use deadly force.
No one else teaches this stuff to the level Massad Ayoob does. You will not be disappointed. I have the VHS copy because DVD's were not available then. If you buy the DVD version and are not amazed and completely satisfied with what you learn, I will buy it from you. So, you really have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.
I've made the same offer at least 25 - 30 times here. I still don't have a DVD version of it yet. One day, I guess I'll have to just buy it myself. I've just put it off because I already have it in VHS format.
It may just save your life, or keep you out of prison.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
May 15th, 2012 04:08 AM
I also have medical problems, in my case, that would make it quite difficult to flee quickly or physically fight off an attacker - and I legally would have justification to believe I am in danger of death or serious injury from less of a threat perhaps than someone who did not have these conditions. ("Believe" in the legal sense, "a reasonable belief", i.e., anyone in my medical position and faced with what I am would likewise believe they were lethally threatened.) My state's law's cover that.
Originally Posted by Dale531
But, the best advice is to speak to an attorney who's an expert on Self-Defense and the Law in your state - as has been very rightly said, we are not those attorneys
Second, look at it practically and not just legally: police arrive at the scene and an unarmed man is lying dead and I'm holding a smoking gun in my hand. Now, I may have shot him because I have a medical condition and believe I have no choice - and I could approach proving that, by medical records and doctors' testimony if it came to that. But I still have no evidence except my word that the dead man did what I say he did - quickly ran at me screaming "I'll kill you". Sooooooo, in spite of the law this is a dicey practical situation to be in and it's not sure I'll crack the nut on it. In other words, even if it's true for you that the law covers you, I wouldn't get too relieved because practically:
it's still something to avoid like the plague unless it's absolutely necessary to save your life.
In this way we are just like someone at the height of their health.
Last edited by walleye; May 15th, 2012 at 03:49 PM.
May 15th, 2012 04:58 AM
I don't think your medical condition changes anything. I don't have a condition, but if I'm shot in the stomach, I might die - just like you. Maybe your odds are a little different, but not if a bullet rips my abdominal aorta. Shoot or don't shoot depends much more on the threat level than it does on your kidney.
May 15th, 2012 06:18 AM
The farther away you get from the very real presumption (whatever that really means) of death or great bodily injury, the closer you get to a wrongful and felonious shooting and a very bad case of losing all your monies in a civil suit. I really could not care what condition you are in--you had better be able to prove somehow, someway ( witnesses, BG w/gun etal) that real presumption and just because you have health problems is not good enough, IMO.
May 15th, 2012 07:36 AM
When you say hit in the abdoman,not sure wheather your talking about being shot,or being punched.In either case,your medical condition does not give you any more, or less ,of a right to use deadly force.As first SGT covered,the laws governing the use of deadly force in the state you are in apply in this case.Follow them to the letter.
May 15th, 2012 10:50 AM
Do what you need to do when the situation comes up, but whether you are "justified" in shooting an attacker will ultimately be determined by the police or in court, so as others have said, you need to have as much evidence as possible in case you need to defend yourself again (legally).
Could you invest in some sort of protection for your abdomen to protect you against physical blows?
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9
“The purpose of the law is not to prevent a future offense, but to punish the one actually committed” - Ayn Rand
May 15th, 2012 02:05 PM
Originally Posted by Dale531
This is not legal advice as I am not a lawyer.
Ask your Doctor if s/he will write you a letter stating that a punch to the stomach would without a doubt kill you. If s/he will write that letter get it in hand and then you may have a defense in a Jury trial.
May 15th, 2012 02:23 PM
As time goes on I change the way I feel about things and this is no different. if you are in fear for your life you can use deadly force IF it is legal in your state. With that said you are going to have to prove that you were and convince other of the same thing and that might not be as easy as you think and it might cost you everything you got; you have no friends in courts
With everything going on in FL and the battle z is going through (remember he was in fear for his life) would a less then lethal weapon worked to do the job?
Sure it would have and been a lot cheaper too. IF he would have had a can of pepper spray (they got better) or a taser (too expensive) he could have fend off the attack and court battle too. If he had to use a gun after the spray it would have been more justified
so what I am trying to say to you is carry some pepper spray along with your CCW for those times that you might need to change someone’s mind about what they want to do and save a lot of time and money in the process
I just bought some on EBay 2-3/4oz cans 17% pepper spray for 9.95 +2.00 shipping. That is a heck of a lot cheaper than a 2 year court battle
May 15th, 2012 03:10 PM
I would clarify this statement. It does not necessarily give you more of a right to use deadly force, but it changes the equation in the disparity of force evaluation. There is still no easy answer to your question, but it makes it so that you would fear for your life at a much earlier point in certain confrontations than an otherwise healthy individual would.
Originally Posted by RayBar
One way to make it easier to prove would be to attempt to tell any assailant who might just be looking for a fight (if the sittuation is right, sometimes you would not want to give up any advantage or info) like in an argument or normal fight, not a mugging or whatever. Inform them loudly enough that you can not get into a physical confrontation for medical reasons, and say it loud enough for bystanders/witnesses to hear. That way you can say that he knew of the disparity of force when your attacker continued to escalate the confrontation.
May 15th, 2012 03:58 PM
VERY good avice: the poster is suggesting the possibility of levels of response. if you only have a gun and can't fight physically due to disability, well you leave yourself with one option. More is better. I'm going to dig out some pepper spray I have in a drawer and carry it now.
Originally Posted by barstoolguru
Thanks for this!
May 15th, 2012 04:44 PM
I carry my gun in a belly band and there are pockets on the other side for a left handers or extra mag and a can of pepper spray.
call it vindictive it you want but to spray some punk in the face and watch him suffer while the cops are coming just sounds good
p.s. check the exp date-all cans seem to have them
May 15th, 2012 07:20 PM
Best advice has already been given. Consult with a criminal defense lawyer who has experience with self defense shootings.
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