Robbery in progress decisions.
This is a discussion on Robbery in progress decisions. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm a newer permit holder so go easy. Since I've been carrying, I've noticed that I often contemplate scenarios when out at typical business I ...
Post By gasmitty
Post By BigStick
Post By mano3
May 15th, 2012 10:39 PM
Robbery in progress decisions.
I'm a newer permit holder so go easy. Since I've been carrying, I've noticed that I often contemplate scenarios when out at typical business I frequent (restaurants, hardware stores, grocery stores etc etc.). My main concern is someone attempting an armed robbery while I or myself and my family are present.
After becoming familiar with much of the Colorado law around self defense etc, I remain clouded on the issue of when you believe your life is actually in danger. Does an armed robbery qualify in and of itself?
Now I realize that there are many ways this can go down and it's impossible to account for all of them. I'm thinking the generic scenario.....BG comes into establishment with a gun, tells everyone to get on the ground waving the gun around, and then demands $ from the business.
1. My life is in danger?: yes
2. Others lives in danger?: yes
Justified in shooting?....not sure. Should I just lay here with my family and hope the BG just leaves?...Topic for another discussion.
Again, I'm new to all this and appreciate everyone's help. Thanks
Sleep, Eat, Train, Repeat
May 15th, 2012 11:00 PM
may i suggest the 'search' can be useful here for you.
spending some time reading on past events that have been discussed can helpful in understanding that there is a lot needed to know just to know how to phrase a question. though you pharsed this ok--here your situational awareness was not on or yet programmed if the BG's got so far as to tell you to get down before you where awaer that something was unfolding about you.
thus you are behind the action curve and of little use at this moment in time. but events are fluid and you may yet have to make some choices though
they will hopefully leave quickly.
You plug 'em, I plant 'em
...kid can't read at 17 (Garcia/Hunter 1985)
Lack of preparation on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on mine
May 16th, 2012 12:05 AM
you can never preempt/predict a shooting/robbery because there are so many different ways it can go.
What you need to tell your self is; is it worth shooting someone because you can? Will it cause a chain reaction and when it does you will be responsible for everything that happens.
Can you do the time? Shooting is the easy part itís all the legal stuff that drags on.
May 16th, 2012 12:21 AM
One must ask themselves " Am I willing to place my life and the lives of family into the BG's hands and hope their intentions are not to kill everyone before they leave?"
bad store robbery - YouTube
May 16th, 2012 12:56 AM
Go get a copy of Massad Ayoob's "In the Gravest Extreme." Read it cover to cover a couple of times until you understand the triad of Ability, Opportunity and Jeopardy. These constitute the basis for acting with lethal force... but I'm just scratching the surface. You're asking good questions, but the best answers will come from spending some time and money with really good trainers who'll guide you through the legal, moral and ethical implications of the use of deadly force in defense of self and loved ones.
AZCDL Life Member
NRA Patron Member
NROI Chief Range Officer
May 16th, 2012 01:09 PM
Until you get your copy of "In the Gravest Extreme", I ask you this about your mindset;
Are you looking for an opportunity where you are 'legal' to deploy your firearm, or are you looking for methods to avoid such confrontations?
I'm assuming that you're not a seasoned pro (forgive me if I'm incorrect). In which case, you more than likely don't have the skills or training to take out a BG in a crowded restaurant and are more apt to escalate the situation into something far more deadly in attempting to do so.
I'm not saying "lay there and take it", but I am suggesting that most new permit holders should be experiencing some form of panic-attack to get additional training.
'Clinging to my guns and religion
May 16th, 2012 01:29 PM
I would say the "simple" answer to your question is yes, in an armed robbery you would be justified in shooting the robber. They have shown evil intent durring the commision of a crime and have the ability via their weapons to inflict great bodily harm.
Will that always be the proper response? Well, what you will find here is that most people will always say: "it depends." There are untold number of variables that you can not predict or describe until in the sittuation. A few being, are you with family, near to them to draw fire, is there cover, are the BGs focused on you, are you in their exit route, how many are there, do they look like they might actually want to kill people(whatever that looks like) or just want the money? The list of variables is unending.
But you are taking the first step, starting to ask the right questions, and thinking and evaluateing, hopefully will leave you more prepared to evaluate a sittuation if you are ever placed in one.
Do some more research, read some books, get some training. I think you are on the right path.
May 16th, 2012 01:42 PM
US Air Force, 1986 - 2007
"To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them..." George Mason
May 16th, 2012 01:45 PM
BigStick hit the nail on the head. Yes you are justified but how you should react depends on way too many variables. 12 additional variables are the jury members in your trial if the DA decides to prosecute even if you thought your life or someone else's was in jeopardy. There is also the chance of a civil trial. Remember that you can be justified in your mind and within the law but that doesn't preclude the time, money, and emotional issues of taking a life.
Originally Posted by BigStick
"If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no head." --Winston Churchill
May 16th, 2012 04:53 PM
Thanks guys. My copy of In The Gravest Extreme arrived yesterday and I'm 1/4 through it. Good stuff.
Sleep, Eat, Train, Repeat
May 16th, 2012 09:14 PM
Don't ever go anywhere with bad guys. Not to the back room, or in a car,hearded into a rest room or freezer. There is a very big chance you won't come out alive. Sometimes you will have take some risks.
Training will help you make good decisions.
"Marines don't surrender-they win or die." from Brute
May 17th, 2012 12:34 AM
I have been told by a police officer, that if the aggressor or aggressors (under the conditions of an armed robbery) have a gun pointed directly at you or any other person, that is your green light to use lethal force.
Take a trip to the range. You can choose to pull that trigger at any moment. Sending a bullet through your choice of paper target or clay pigeon.
Now think about a trip to the criminals chosen target. They can choose to pull that trigger at any moment too. Are you really gonna wait it out to see if they send a bullet through the clerks head or maybe even yours?
By no means should you search for such situations. However if a situation finds you, you will have to make a decision if its worth it to guarantee your survival.
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