What is the Purpose of Using A Mini-Red Dot Sight On a Pistol: Combat?

I'm still confused about one thing: If you're holding the sight as far away from the eyes as you are with one mounted on a handgun while sighting, with the arms close to straight out, how can you see anything though? It's such a small viewing area to begin with. Seems the "screen of this TV" would just be too far away to distinguish anything. Or do you sight with the gun closer to the body? My arms are close to straight out while aiming now - (the same in SD practice, when just getting a quick sight-picture).

Anyone have a photo of them aiming with it? I've never seen anyone using one of these.

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Originally Posted by walleye

I'm still confused about one thing: If you're holding the sight as far away from the eyes as you are with one mounted on a handgun while sighting, with the arms close to straight out, how can you see anything though? It's such a small viewing area to begin with. Seems the "screen of this TV" would just be too far away to distinguish anything. Or do you sight with the gun closer to the body? My arms are close to straight out while aiming now - (the same in SD practice, when just getting a quick sight-picture).

Anyone have a photo of them aiming with it? I've never seen anyone using one of these.

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Looking through the glass, at least on my DeltaPoint, does nothing to change one's field of view. It is like looking through an oversized sight aperture with the aiming point superimposed.

Very timely.. I just wrote this blog this week about the RDS i tried out this last weekend...

Limatunes' Range Diary: Red Dot Sights on Combat Guns

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Originally Posted by walleye

I'm still confused about one thing: If you're holding the sight as far away from the eyes as you are with one mounted on a handgun while sighting, with the arms close to straight out, how can you see anything though? It's such a small viewing area to begin with. Seems the "screen of this TV" would just be too far away to distinguish anything. Or do you sight with the gun closer to the body? My arms are close to straight out while aiming now - (the same in SD practice, when just getting a quick sight-picture).

Anyone have a photo of them aiming with it? I've never seen anyone using one of these.

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Think of it this way.. take a twisty-tie or some other piece of wire, bend it into a one-inch square and hold it out at arms length and look through it. There is zero obstruction of your target area and if you imagine a red dot floating in the middle of that you can imagine how easy it is to sight with it. It's very intuitive and not at all hard to get a hang of. You certainly don't need to hold your firearm any closer to you.

What I loved most about it was that it takes absolutely nothing away from you as a shooter. You can still use sight alignment and great sight picture.

yeah, can get a little pricey.
But, the way I look at it, IF....IF I ever need it, I'm sure what I spent on it will be the last thing on my mind.

As to concealed carry, I am of the opinion, just from watching the popularity of these dots in related forums, that indeed they will be more and more accepted and utilized on cc guns. When we talk about them (dots) as self defense distances, I think we should be looking at using them in proper context. So, no, they are not gonna be of huge benefit at contact to just outside of arm's length. But, as you are creating distance from your adversary, (one of Paul Gomez's) vids shows this very well, and are moving to where a sighted picture is achieved, the dot will allow one to stay on target while moving, and/or while tracking the movement of the opponent(s). In a barricade instance, the dot allows one to shoot com of whatever you can see untill you can see and shoot a better target.
If one's self/situational awareness (sa) is good, (talked about quite often in this forum), then one probably has already left the danger area, or already access the gun if confrontation is unavoidable, and now the dot can be used even in close contact. It will be utilized as a 'holo sight'. The user will be looking past the gun, focused on the threat, but still be able to see the dot indexed on the 'problem at hand'.

Like I reported in my evaluation of the TSD pistol of mine, I never even gave it (dot) a thought. Then I tried one. If you ever get a chance, give it a try. I think most would be surprised.

dan

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...g17/photo5.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...g17/photo3.jpg

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Originally Posted by jdsumner

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...g17/photo5.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...g17/photo3.jpg

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That's good. Thanks! NOW, I get it!


well, i wish i knew someone who used one - so I could try it. They ARE pricey, and I've not so much $ I can afford to buy something like this in just the hope I'll really take to it.

Maybe if I start to put the word out at my range someone will turn up.

But I am NOW very intrigued - and beginning to LUST after one. Uh-Ooo....................... I'm a very weak person when lust arises...

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This has been a very informative thread - thanks to you users of these devices for being so clear about the aid you get from them. I never expected this. And the article one posted giving a thorough account of his experience: just excellent. Exactly what a forum should be!

walleye-
surely there's at the least an IPSC guy at the range who can let you peek thru on of his spaceguns or raceguns. That was my first experience, a true gentleman at the range I attended allowed me to shoot his comp gun at some falling plates. That was literally 10yrs ago or longer. I remember how easy it was to track plate to plate and just sorta run on auto pilot. That stayed w/ me until I began to see some people taking the dot into LEO, .mil, and finally into cc worlds. And now, well, here I am.

Give any of these folks a call/email and get the first hand scoop on dots:
Bowie Tactical Concepts Home Page
Home | TSD Combat Systems
Atom Mounting System from Unity Tactical – Jerking the Trigger

dan

I listened to a podcast from the Handgun World show. One of the chief instructors (can't remember who) from Suarez International explained a lot of the benefits of a RMR. From what I can remember:

1. quicker target acquisition
2. not affected by sight radius (can make much longer shots from a pistol, which is helpful in active shooter scenarios)
3. advantage in low light
4. easier to see than just open sights for people who don't have 20/20 vision
5. helps with cross-dominance

I'll add it has also helped me make great strides in my nondom hand shooting. I believe a great deal of this improvement stems from the ability to see the dot jump or jerk when dry firing. When the trigger is cleanly broken, the "dot don't move
I truly feel that IF I was forced to make a shot w my left hand, it would be easier w the dot than it has been without it.

dan

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Originally Posted by JD

That's about it for now. About 6-9 months from now I should have a G17 with Delta Point and Crimson Trace Unit and you can bet I'll be doing some exhaustive work on that set up and reporting back...

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Looking forward to your report.

Sam Spade let me use his at MAG 40, holy cow really fast target acquisition for old eyes.

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Originally Posted by jdsumner

walleye-
surely there's at the least an IPSC guy at the range who can let you peek thru on of his spaceguns or raceguns. That was my first experience, a true gentleman at the range I attended allowed me to shoot his comp gun at some falling plates. That was literally 10yrs ago or longer. I remember how easy it was to track plate to plate and just sorta run on auto pilot. That stayed w/ me until I began to see some people taking the dot into LEO, .mil, and finally into cc worlds. And now, well, here I am.

Give any of these folks a call/email and get the first hand scoop on dots:
Bowie Tactical Concepts Home Page
Home | TSD Combat Systems
Atom Mounting System from Unity Tactical – Jerking the Trigger


dan

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Thanks, unfortunately I don't know any IPSC guys who shoot at my range, The range is both membership and allows the public to shoot. I mostly see a lot of off-duty Leo's shooting, plus regulars and a few outsiders. Homeland Security (Customs) leases part of the range, so maybe I'll ask one of those guys - though they don't use them as issue.

walleye, first off all the positives everyone are stating are correct.
As far as carrying you don't even know the difference.
There are also other advantages depending on your physical condition and eye sight. I will never go back to iron sights.
Here is a post I made a few days ago about my short term experience.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...-problems.html

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Originally Posted by 21bubba

Curious. I know the differences between red dot and lasers, but don't they have the same advantages and disadvantages?

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In addition to JD's excellent reply, one of the things to bear in mind with a red dot on a pistol is that, if the pistol gets dropped in dirt or mud, the glass can get obscured. This not only prevents your use of the red dot, but it also prevents your use of your back-up iron sights. How likely that is, I'll leave up to you to decide, but it is something to consider.

Lasers and red dots are actually complementary - thus, I really like Mike1956's setup. The red dot is better in bright light, and at long range. The laser is better if shooting from unconventional positions, where you may not be able (or wish to) bring the gun up to eye level to use the sights.

Lasers also have a documented psychological advantage, where their use can sometimes cause a perp to cease their actions - even after first continuing to be beligerent in the face of drawn weapons. There is something very powerful in knowing that you are going to get shot "right here." Laser sights are featured prominently in popular culture (films, TV, etc) and that gives their user a potential edge that simply does not exist with a red dot.

If money were no object (and my primary mode of carry was not in the pocket) I'd probably mimic Mike1956's setup - and use both.