What is the Purpose of Using A Mini-Red Dot Sight On a Pistol: Combat?

This is a discussion on What is the Purpose of Using A Mini-Red Dot Sight On a Pistol: Combat? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So, has anyone taken the RDS plunge since the last post?...

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Thread: What is the Purpose of Using A Mini-Red Dot Sight On a Pistol: Combat?

  1. #76
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    So, has anyone taken the RDS plunge since the last post?

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  3. #77
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    Looking to add one to my M&P pistol. I'm surprised none of the RDS makers have incorporated a fixed rear sight into their design.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  4. #78
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky View Post
    I'm surprised none of the RDS makers have incorporated a fixed rear sight into their design.
    It probably wouldn't work. The sight would need a way to establish fixed sight zero, then be locked down (and no, the notch in the JPoint was never really meant to be a rear sight, even if occasionally the mounting just happened to allow it to work that way).

    No, the separate fixed sights with RDS in the middle is good the way it is.

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  6. #80
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    What is the Purpose of Using A Mini-Red Dot Sight On a Pistol: Combat?

    I used one for 4 months on a g19. In the end I sold it. Just another gadget IMO. From 25 to 50 yards it was far better than iron sights. From closer in it was not any faster. There is also this constant fear in my case even with a milled slide that the rear sight would catch on clothing if you were IWB carrying.

    To rack the slide due to a malfunction with one arm using you thigh was another concern. I just found the negative check marks greater than the pro for myself. I carry a 19 or 26 IWB at 4:00 o'clock and I am now just a normal citizen without a need for OWB duty rig. For that they maybe better, where extreme precision shots maybe needed

    It is sort of like the caliber arguments that go round and round. The groups maybe a bit smaller for the distance I am concerned about 10 feet to 25 yards. But if all the shots with both a Red Dot and iron shots are center mass does it really matter?


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  7. #81
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happypuppy View Post
    There is also this constant fear in my case even with a milled slide that the rear sight would catch on clothing if you were IWB carrying.
    I'm not sure why this is a fear over any other high profile sight???

  8. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    I'm not sure why this is a fear over any other high profile sight???
    I'm not sure, either. The 17 shown in my avatar is my edc. I ran this course with it Active Killer-Shooter LE/Civ – Tactical Defense Institute - Tactical, Firearms Training, pistol, rifle, shotgun in my regular carry configuration (iwb concealed), and it performed flawlessly through literally hundreds of draws from concealment and over a thousand rounds over a three-day period. I have complete confidence in the set-up, based solely on my experience with it. It has a learning curve, to be sure, but so does everything else.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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  9. #83
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    I can't say enough good things about the dot sights in general. When they started appearing on our rifles about 10 years ago (I retired from the military this year) I played around with them, the aimpoints and then the EOTech when we started getting those. I completely dismissed them. I was fast with the irons and saw no value in those things at all, so i went on a couple deployments leaving the optics in the gun case and using my flip-up sights. Eventually, someone noticed, and took me to the range to show me how to actually use the dot sight. I was amazed. Both eyes open, look at your target, raise your rifle until the red dot is where you want to shoot and shoot. It works equally well with NV.


    The problem with them, is they lose their zero really fast. Now I've found that when it is zeroed, you can aim with your irons and the dot will appear right at the top of your front sight. So, you should be able to just aim with the irons and move the dot until it's there and it's zeroed, right? No. Somehow it doesn't work that way. You must live fire to properly zero the red dot sight. This is fine if you're in the military, and can go to the range whenever you need, even if it's before every op, but for a gun at home, not so much.

    So my main concern with one on a handgun, that's going in and out of a holster all the time, in and out of a gun safe all the time, getting the slide racked all the time, beaten and banged around every time the firearm cycles, is your zero would be off all the time and the sight would be useless. And I'm guessing these handgun dot sights don't allow you to co witness the irons? (I don't know, so correct me if I'm wrong.) But basically, I would have some concerns about using these on an everyday carry handgun. They would be great for some sort of dedicated or competition handgun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmbr5ml View Post
    I can't say enough good things about the dot sights in general. When they started appearing on our rifles about 10 years ago (I retired from the military this year) I played around with them, the aimpoints and then the EOTech when we started getting those. I completely dismissed them. I was fast with the irons and saw no value in those things at all, so i went on a couple deployments leaving the optics in the gun case and using my flip-up sights. Eventually, someone noticed, and took me to the range to show me how to actually use the dot sight. I was amazed. Both eyes open, look at your target, raise your rifle until the red dot is where you want to shoot and shoot. It works equally well with NV.


    The problem with them, is they lose their zero really fast. Now I've found that when it is zeroed, you can aim with your irons and the dot will appear right at the top of your front sight. So, you should be able to just aim with the irons and move the dot until it's there and it's zeroed, right? No. Somehow it doesn't work that way. You must live fire to properly zero the red dot sight. This is fine if you're in the military, and can go to the range whenever you need, even if it's before every op, but for a gun at home, not so much.

    So my main concern with one on a handgun, that's going in and out of a holster all the time, in and out of a gun safe all the time, getting the slide racked all the time, beaten and banged around every time the firearm cycles, is your zero would be off all the time and the sight would be useless. And I'm guessing these handgun dot sights don't allow you to co witness the irons? (I don't know, so correct me if I'm wrong.) But basically, I would have some concerns about using these on an everyday carry handgun. They would be great for some sort of dedicated or competition handgun.
    The only time I have lost zero with my DeltaPoint on my Glock is when I change batteries. Since my range is literally in my back yard, that is of very little consequence.
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  11. #85
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    I've been carrying a G26 with a milled JPoint for over 2 years, and the G19 with RMR since July. Both have had many rounds fired through them, carried daily and trained with weekly.

    My JPoint lined right up with the irons last battery change and was dead-on. Haven't had to change the one in the RMR yet, but TSD says they go back to zero.

    What kind of RDS have you been using that lose zero so quickly? I've never known Aimpoint or EOTech to have any problems regarding that.

  12. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    I've been carrying a G26 with a milled JPoint for over 2 years, and the G19 with RMR since July. Both have had many rounds fired through them, carried daily and trained with weekly.

    My JPoint lined right up with the irons last battery change and was dead-on. Haven't had to change the one in the RMR yet, but TSD says they go back to zero.

    What kind of RDS have you been using that lose zero so quickly? I've never known Aimpoint or EOTech to have any problems regarding that.
    I used an aimpoint, and switched to the EOtech in 2008. I don't know the exact model or whatever, I just used what our life support guys gave me. I also started using a swiveling magnifier with the EOTech in like 2009, which probably exacerbated any perceived loss of zero. Everyone in our command used these sights for the most part and we all had to zero them a couple times a week. It wasn't just me. Don't know if it was vibrations from the helicopters, rattling around on long walks or what. I'm not talking about them being off by a mile either, but they would be off a little. I would expect a rifle's life in Afghanistan and Iraq is a bit more harsh than stateside, but in the case of a handgun, not so much. Any sight mounted on a handgun is going to take a beating. That's why I'm a little dubious, but I've never used one on a handgun. If they hold zero better, somehow, I'd be a little more encouraged. They definitely would be faster than any kind of iron sights, with practice.

  13. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmbr5ml View Post
    I used an aimpoint, and switched to the EOtech in 2008. I don't know the exact model or whatever, I just used what our life support guys gave me. I also started using a swiveling magnifier with the EOTech in like 2009, which probably exacerbated any perceived loss of zero. Everyone in our command used these sights for the most part and we all had to zero them a couple times a week. It wasn't just me. Don't know if it was vibrations from the helicopters, rattling around on long walks or what. I'm not talking about them being off by a mile either, but they would be off a little. I would expect a rifle's life in Afghanistan and Iraq is a bit more harsh than stateside, but in the case of a handgun, not so much. Any sight mounted on a handgun is going to take a beating. That's why I'm a little dubious, but I've never used one on a handgun. If they hold zero better, somehow, I'd be a little more encouraged. They definitely would be faster than any kind of iron sights, with practice.
    If they were removed and remounted, I can understand the loss of zero. But your experience seems to be quite different than any other Aimpoint use I know of.

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    What is the Purpose of Using A Mini-Red Dot Sight On a Pistol: Combat?

    When your 45 and your eyes start to do the bifocal trifocal thing, the red dot on a pistol will suddenly make sense. Im not there yet, but headed that way.


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    Just place the dot on the intended target and pull no aiming required !! Eddie.

  16. #90
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    What is the Purpose of Using A Mini-Red Dot Sight On a Pistol: Combat?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    I'm not sure why this is a fear over any other high profile sight???
    I don't use high profile sights, they snag too easily.


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