Transporting pistol to Michigan
This is a discussion on Transporting pistol to Michigan within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Fellow Michiganders,
If you've tried to bring in a pistol from out of state, you've no doubt been told that you have to send it ...
May 27th, 2012 11:26 PM
Transporting pistol to Michigan
If you've tried to bring in a pistol from out of state, you've no doubt been told that you have to send it to a licensed firearms dealer from the original state, pick it up and THEN register it.
I went round and round with the local police dept about this. I called BS on this (I have a 1911 purchased and registered in Texas). After failing to get through the officer in Kalamazoo, I reached out to the MSP (MI State Police) main HQ and questioned this. Turns out that if you are being told this, it is dead wrong. But, it is not the fault of your local law enforcement office. The MSP teaches this erroneous info to the officers and clerks when they go for training. Why this is-- I have no idea. I tend to think it's the one or two people that teach the class that are wrong and teaching the wrong things.
So, after have the MSP talk with the Kalamazoo PD, having a Federal Marshall speak with them and showing them on the darn MSP website that you CAN transport the pistol to Michigan, I was finally cleared to do it. However, and this is a big HOWEVER, I can only imagine that thousands if not tens-of-thousands of dollars have been spent over the years with hapless MI residents paying dealers to receive and having to pay freight charges.
Please PM me if you need further info on this. Further proof that one person teaching the wrong thing can have detrimental effects on a multitude of people. Course, you can turn on MSNBC and find that out, too.
Please note that this does not count towards pistols ordered online. Those you have to go through a firearms dealer.
May 28th, 2012 07:07 AM
What exactly were you trying to do?
It sounds like you were once a TX resident, moved to MI while leaving your 1911 in TX, then as a resident of MI wanted to bring in your 1911?
I don't want to speculate your scenario but if the above is correct and you were having it shipped to you then I would be surprised if that was legal without going through a dealer.
I reason I ask is because I was born in MI, moved away, then moved back as a gun owner. (now gone again).
May 28th, 2012 08:13 AM
You are correct. I moved to Michigan from Texas and left the pistol with family until I had a chance to check out the local firearms laws. I was making a trip back to see family and had planned to bring the 1911 with me on the way back, which I was told I could not do. Which, again, was not correct.
If you are shipping a pistol that you already own and have registered somewhere, I see no reason why it would have to go through a firearms dealer as well. It was legally purchased, legally registered and as long as you are not violating any of the carrier's rules, I don't know why you couldn't just ship it to yourself.
If in doubt, check the MSP website or call them. I would not recommend asking your local police dept.
May 28th, 2012 08:31 AM
I still think shipping it to yourself is a Federal/ATF issue and I wouldn't trust what any local or state LEO had to say about it. Call the ATF maybe?
If you drive it in or fly with it in, I agree you're fine.
May 28th, 2012 08:36 AM
Here is the answer to the conundrum,
10. I have just moved to Michigan from another state. How much time do I have to register my pistols?
MCL 28.422 Upon establishing legal residency, you should immediately contact your local law enforcement agency, pass the basic safety questionnaire, and complete a License to Purchase.
Taken from here; MSP - Michigan's Concealed Pistol Law - FAQs
Which leads us to this;
28.422 License to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; nonresidents; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person shall not purchase, carry, possess, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section.
(2) A person who brings a pistol into this state who is on leave from active duty with the armed forces of the United States or who has been discharged from active duty with the armed forces of the United States shall obtain a license for the pistol within 30 days after his or her arrival in this state.
(3) The commissioner or chief of police of a city, township, or village police department that issues licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols, or his or her duly authorized deputy, or the sheriff or his or her duly authorized deputy, in the parts of a county not included within a city, township, or village having an organized police department, in discharging the duty to issue licenses shall with due speed and diligence issue licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols to qualified applicants residing within the city, village, township, or county, as applicable unless he or she has probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state or of the United States. An applicant is qualified if all of the following circumstances exist:
Taken from HERE; Michigan Legislature - Section 28.422
So basically, once you move here you go to your local PD/Sheriff dept.
and do the following,
Upon establishing legal residency, you should immediately contact your local law enforcement agency, pass the basic safety questionnaire, and complete a License to Purchase.
You should not have to go through an FFL to do this.
All the MSP want is for you to go and fill out a LTP, so they have it on record where the pistol is.
I would rather die with good men than hide with cowards
If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy."
M&Pc .357sig, 2340Sigpro .357sig
May 28th, 2012 10:05 AM
I wonder how, IF this is passed, will it affect (state-to-state) gun transfers in MI?
NRA-ILA | Michigan House Committee Votes to Repeal Permit to Purchase Today
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” - Ben Franklin
May 28th, 2012 10:13 AM
That was my same thought. Lets hope they get rid of it. Its one of the items that the brady bunch likes about our state....
Originally Posted by MotorCityGun
Don"t let stupid be your skill set....
Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......
May 28th, 2012 10:35 AM
Upon establishing legal residency, you should immediately contact your local law enforcement agency, pass the basic safety questionnaire, and complete a License to Purchase. [/B]
You should not have to go through an FFL to do this.[/U][/U]
All the MSP want is for you to go and fill out a LTP, so they have it on record where the pistol is.[/QUOTE]
I printed that page off the MSP website and showed it to the Kzoo police dept to prove my point and they still told me I had to go through an FFL. Again, I was able to finally show them the contradiction and did not go through a FFL. I just want to make sure that those who are moving here, or going to go pick up firearms from another state that they don't have to go through this kabuki hatdance.
As for the passing of the bill that will get rid of the permit to purchase, I know I donate and am a member of MCRGO and the NRA. If they help make it pass, all the better.
May 28th, 2012 11:03 AM
Here is a quote from the source:
"Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?
Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm."
ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons
Whether FedEx or UPS will do it since there is not a FFL on either end is another question.
The only other thing my paranoid mind would be concerned about is if you have been a resident longer than "immediately" I would hate to walk in to get it registered and have them take it away since you didn't register it "immediately". It would be nice to prove that you just brought it into the state. I would think having a CPL would help since you can just mail in the paperwork.
May 28th, 2012 11:33 AM
Well, I wasn't asked when I brought it in, so guess it's up to the person to volunteer that info. They don't need to see the actual firearm itself, just the yellow paperwork. Again, I would ALWAYS bring the paperwork in the day you move there.
On my permit to purchase I simply wrote 'Transfer registration from another state' and they were completely fine with it.
May 28th, 2012 12:27 PM
You need to get rid of that registration scheme!
"Marines don't surrender-they win or die." from Brute
May 29th, 2012 07:41 AM
What is the purpose of this registration process?
Do the authorities keep the info as a route to quick confiscation if the political winds shift in a big way someday?
The reason I ask is that after 12 very long years out of state, we're moving back to Michigan from Jersey in late June.
As everyone knows NJ is one of the very worse states for 2A rights. But even here, they don't make you register handguns that you bring in when you move to Jersey. (Registration is required for any handguns you purchase while living here.)
How much time do you legally have to register after moving in to MI before you're in trouble?
Obviously, I'm hoping that House Bill 5225 will become law before we get settled in.
The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.
May 29th, 2012 08:03 AM
During the purchase process they don't call it "registration" Once you purchase without a CPL and take it back to your local LEO they call it a "Safety Inspection" for which you get a certificate.
Originally Posted by Brass63
With a CPL they call it a "Pistol Sales Record" that you send in and keep a copy.
You can never tell what the motivations of politicians are but they say it's to prove ownership of your firearm.
The problem with the timeline when moving in and registering, they say "immediately" upon establishing residency. Does that mean if I go the next day after getting my drivers license it's not immediate? Many states that require registration at least give you a firm number like 7 days.
It's probably designed like the federal tax laws where everyone is violating them somehow so they can go after you if they want.
May 31st, 2012 12:24 PM
I used to live in Michigan and carried legally. I registered (had them "safety inspected") by the local cop shop. When pulled over by the same officers, they had no clue that I either had a permit or that I was armed. What a useless gesture registering the handguns turned out to be.
Where I live now, no registration, no duty to notify and getting a permit to carry is easy. However, they have my driver's license number on my permit so they know about my permit and that I am probably armed when they run my info. This works for me.
June 1st, 2012 09:00 PM
It's probably designed like the federal tax laws where everyone is violating them somehow so they can go after you if they want.[/QUOTE]
I couldn't agree more.
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