Interesting Article on what to do after a shooting

Interesting Article on what to do after a shooting

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Thread: Interesting Article on what to do after a shooting

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array mano3's Avatar
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    Interesting Article on what to do after a shooting

    US Air Force, 1986 - 2007

    "To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them..." George Mason

    http://www.appleseedinfo.org/


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    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    You don't know if the BG is dead or not. If you do what the article says and put the gun on the ground what happens when the BG picks up his/your gun and finishes what he started? Granted it's unlikely but this is why the majority of the time you are advised to re-holster your weapon and don't touch it.

    It also doesn't mention that some times when you are released, you will have the BG's friends/family looking for revenge regardless of whos fault it is.


    Other than that, good article.
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    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    It has some interesing ideas, but as he states, he is not a lawyer. And there are different takes on this from various "experts." I would suggest getting multiple other opinions.

    I for one intend to stay on the phone with 911 and give them more info than simply there was a shooting. I do agree with what he said about not touching any evidence though, and I wouldn't be opposed to shouting "please don't kill me", as long as it is before the shots. Afterward just makes you look and sound stupid and like you are trying to manufacture evidence.
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    The lawyers I have talked to recommend saying "I was in a lethal force confrontation, in fear for my life and was forced to shoot", both in the 911 call and upon arrival of the police. Be aware that you cannot invoke the right to counsel for friends or family who are present. They must do it themselves. Make sure they know this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    The lawyers I have talked to recommend saying "I was in a lethal force confrontation, in fear for my life and was forced to shoot", both in the 911 call and upon arrival of the police. Be aware that you cannot invoke the right to counsel for friends or family who are present. They must do it themselves. Make sure they know this.
    Simple and to the point.

    (And I've yet to read of a guy that talked himself out of a crime)

  6. #6
    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Very good! Thanks!

    A few puzzles: the guy says something about "you better have the proper training". I hope he means the state mandated one for the permit - because nowhere do you have an obligation to get more combat training (I mean combat-training, not working with an NRA instructor more on the basics). But combat training can be dicey - looks like you may be looking at people with a "combat"-mentality - and with a jury, can give the impression you are a type of professional, afterwhich, it's logical they criticize you more for anything questionable you may have done, so I'd keep that in mind or at least check out in your area "training requirements". I bet there are none outside of any mandated for the CCW.

    Second, I just want to bring up a contrary view I've heard about saying NOTHING until you have an attorney. That view is it's OK - if you can - to make a short LEGAL statement to at least show it's a case of Self-Defense, like "The man was lethally attacking me and I had to stop the attack. I'd be glad to answer all further questions you have and intend to cooperate fully, but I wish to speak to my attorney at this time."

    Otherwise, if the police have no idea what happened, they may believe you are a possible murderer.

    Anyway, on this point there is another view.

    My last reaction, great stuff BUT boy, you'd have to summon up some poise and awareness to respond the way you should in the worst of circumstances. The real problem would be - to do it like the man suggests when you will be in such a crazed state from what just happened. It would be VERY hard.

    PS: A last question I have, but more that I never see it addressed than that it wasn't in this article: in some places you are supposed "render aid" to the wounded person, I believe, while waiting for help. I've never understood how you leaning over a prone figure when the police pull up would be a good idea - or what are you supposed to do with your gun? Have it with you when you move close to the wounded man - he could grab it?

    If anyone can explain this "aiding the injured person" I'd like to know more about it.

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    Member Array paching's Avatar
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    Maybe by by stepping on his injury to stop the bleeding? (sarcasm) I'm not helping anybody who's threatened to blow my f@#$king brains out while robing me.
    Why?? Because at the last second, the Police are minutes away.

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    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    PS: A last question I have, but more that I never see it addressed than that it wasn't in this article: in some places you are supposed "render aid" to the wounded person, I believe, while waiting for help. I've never understood how you leaning over a prone figure when the police pull up would be a good idea - or what are you supposed to do with your gun? Have it with you when you move close to the wounded man - he could grab it?

    If anyone can explain this "aiding the injured person" I'd like to know more about it.
    Calling 911 and asking for police and an ambulance would be considered rendering aid, from what I have heard.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    A few puzzles: the guy says something about "you better have the proper training". I hope he means the state mandated one for the permit - because nowhere do you have an obligation to get more combat training (I mean combat-training, not working with an NRA instructor more on the basics).
    The author doesn't specify, but I think it's obvious that anyone has strong incentive to be as knowledgeable and skilled with the requirements/risks of the statues as well as with defensive techniques in order to survive a deadly-force encounter and its aftermath. Particularly if one chooses to be armed with a deadly weapon.

    IMO, "proper training" in this sense should be taken to mean as much quality training and knowledge acquisition as one can afford, stand and absorb. Given the heavy incentive in the legal system to close cases and reach convictions, sometimes seemingly at any cost, that's simply self-preservation and good common sense.
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    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    Very good! Thanks!

    Second, I just want to bring up a contrary view I've heard about saying NOTHING until you have an attorney. That view is it's OK - if you can - to make a short LEGAL statement to at least show it's a case of Self-Defense, like "The man was lethally attacking me and I had to stop the attack. I'd be glad to answer all further questions you have and intend to cooperate fully, but I wish to speak to my attorney at this time."

    Otherwise, if the police have no idea what happened, they may believe you are a possible murderer.


    [/B]
    Do not wish to "burst your bubble" but the minute the police arrive, regardless of what has happened and regardless of your converstion with 911, unless there is a preponderance of independent witnesses available, you are the prime suspect in a murder.
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    PS: A last question I have, but more that I never see it addressed than that it wasn't in this article: in some places you are supposed "render aid" to the wounded person, I believe, while waiting for help. I've never understood how you leaning over a prone figure when the police pull up would be a good idea - or what are you supposed to do with your gun? Have it with you when you move close to the wounded man - he could grab it?
    If your state legally demands you render aid, even if that injured person is your deadly assailant, then good luck to you.

    Myself, I will consider calling 911 sufficient aid if an assailant has tried to take my life. I'd be lunatic to approach within contact distance after having escaped the deadly attack on me. Personally, I'm prepared to stand up to any idiotic claims that calling for 911 police and medical assistance fails to constitute "aid." The criminal who had attempted my murder/robbery can wait for the pro's. But that's just me. YMMV. Know your legal requirements, and know what you're prepared to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    ... regardless of what has happened and regardless of your converstion with 911 ... you are the prime suspect in a murder.
    Yup, at least until things are cleared up during the aftermath. Presume that the inbound cavalry's going to first seek to secure the situation, then see how the chips have fallen. Such a time is hardly the time to be naive about what could appear to be the case from the vantage point of the inbound cavalry, lacking facts at the moment of arrival.
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    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post

    "The man was lethally attacking me and I had to stop the attack. I'd be glad to answer all further questions you have and intend to cooperate fully, but I wish to speak to my attorney at this time."
    I'm a bit concerned about using the term "lethally attacking me."

    From what I have read, wording like "I was in fear of grievous bodily injury [however your State defines it] or death" -- or "I was in fear of or grievous bodily injury to or death of others", if that is the case.

    Very good read here: Defending the Self-Defense Case

    Long video but worth watching here: "Stand Your Ground" Laws: Self-Defense or License to Kill? | Cato Institute: Policy Forum
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    Senior Member Array mano3's Avatar
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    In regards to the comments about 'training', I think the author means that if your state requires mandatory handgun training, then it's your responsibility to be current. On that note, I think most states that require the training require that it is completed before issuing your permit.
    US Air Force, 1986 - 2007

    "To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them..." George Mason

    http://www.appleseedinfo.org/

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    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    The author doesn't specify, but I think it's obvious that anyone has strong incentive to be as knowledgeable and skilled with the requirements/risks of the statues as well as with defensive techniques in order to survive a deadly-force encounter and its aftermath. Particularly if one chooses to be armed with a deadly weapon.

    IMO, "proper training" in this sense should be taken to mean as much quality training and knowledge acquisition as one can afford, stand and absorb. Given the heavy incentive in the legal system to close cases and reach convictions, sometimes seemingly at any cost, that's simply self-preservation and good common sense.
    No, I thought he was referring to some legal requirement he thought you had to have over and above the mandated CCW courses - he likely was meaning it as you do as a good idea.

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