June 13th, 2012 10:33 AM
"HOWEVER, shooters with evil intent also carry "big guns" openly and proudly, just before blasting away in public."
Rev, would you be able to point me to one of these incidents? I'm thinking you may have put a little too much emotion in that statement.
I too don't particularly like the long gun open carriers. While I open carry for comfort and accessibility I feel the long guns are to attract attention. That said, I don't consider the long gun slung over shoulder a threat but would increase my SA. One carried in hand tho would be a different story as Yankee stated.
I appreciate concealed carriers as well as open carriers and feel SA is our biggest advantage regardless of method of carry.
June 13th, 2012 12:22 PM
He didn't say that, he said many. I'd agree with that. See the amount of people making confrontational youtube videos, having open carry meetings in public places, etc.
Originally Posted by Ram Rod
June 13th, 2012 02:42 PM
I would say it depends on all of the details. Location, time of year, types and number of other people, the manner in which it was being carried, dress and demeanor of the individual, etc...
If they do not look/act suspicious or nervous, and the gun is on a sling on their back, then keep an eye on them, but no big deal. If they have it in their hands, it would be a concern.
And to those bashing everyone who does it as a political statement, what if it was the only method legally available for you to carry a weapon for self-defense? Is it still just political, or would it be considered prudent to be ready to defend yourself whenever possible. Or are people only "normal" if they defend themselves the way you think is best?
June 13th, 2012 03:31 PM
Is this based on one incident? I have NEVER seen open carriers with ARs in any place other than the gun range or gun shop - or out hunting. I have never heard of a "shooter with evil intent" carrying around a long gun "proudly" [your word].
Originally Posted by revdej
Seems like a fabricated scenario, so I don't wish to provide a fabricated answer.
June 13th, 2012 03:50 PM
Given such a broad question, I would have to answer as follows:
I guess that this is a good reason to place yourself where you can use your SA most effectivly that gives you the most time to get you and yours outta Dodge if things go bad. Don't live in fear, live ready. All done beforehand, not necessarily requiring confrontation.
Vietnam Vets, WELCOME HOME
Crossman 760 BB/Pellet, Daisy Red Ryder, Crossman Wrist Rocket, 14 Steak Knives, 3 Fillet Knives, Rolling Pin-14", Various Hunting Knives, 2 Baseball Bats, 3 Big Dogs and a big American Flag flying in the yard. I have no firearms; Try the next house.
June 13th, 2012 08:17 PM
I watched the video and failed to see anything jerky in it... did I miss something?
Originally Posted by Gene83
Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine
June 14th, 2012 09:35 AM
Because there are a lot of knee-jerk types out there who'll scream "he's got a gun!" at the mere sight of something gun-shaped, it behooves a person to both look and act like a sensible reasonable citizen when going out into the world. The knee-jerks and automaton responders going after a MWAG will tend to be less vehement in their responses, in addition to having little to no justification. The "grey man" concept does wonders, here.
What do I do when seeing "heavy" firepower? Hell, there are knee-jerks who consider any defensive tool to be "heavy," rational or not. I've only seen stuff beyond typical sidearms on a couple occasions, outside of a range or hunting/field situation. Wasn't unhinged at the time, nor did I get unduly concerned. Though I agree with the wondering whether a person who would make such a decision has considered all of the potential ramifications.
Last edited by ccw9mm; June 14th, 2012 at 11:43 AM.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
June 14th, 2012 10:32 AM
My daughter-in-law thinks my P226 is "heavy firepower", while she views my wife's S&W 642 Ladysmith as "cute". Go figure.
It's like the "assault weapons" ban: based solely on looks, not function. Those with an ignorance of firearms make all kinds of irrational suppositions.
June 14th, 2012 10:52 AM
"It's 99% half mental." - Yogi Berra
Context matters, ie., Alaska, hunting season, or bear country.
It's hard not to notice the obvious. Chances are, you have more to worry about from the unseen. I certainly wouldn't freak out, unless he had a checkered towel on his head and was yelling something in a foreign language. Then I might pop him from behind cover.
Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
-Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95
June 14th, 2012 10:59 AM
+1... only guy I saw ask about firearms issues did so in a very polite and level manner.
Originally Posted by Badey
June 14th, 2012 12:12 PM
So an Italian has a bad hair day, and you drill him? That's just rude!
Originally Posted by gunthorp
There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo
“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
-- John F. Kennedy
June 14th, 2012 12:58 PM
Alrighty... Let me think this through for a second... I'm going to direct this response to the OP, but this will be relevant to other posts in this thread. I hope you don’t get angry that I post a couple of paragraphs, but I feel the need to express my opinions on this matter as a whole.
1) You are OK with the concept of Open Carrying.
2) You stereotype people who open carry long guns as people who may potentially have “evil intent”. That, or they must be making a political statement.
3) You want to know if other people have knee jerk reactions and think someone carrying a long gun has “evil intent” and if their situational awareness heightens.
Valid questions. I’ll respond as I see it.
Personally, I don’t see any difference in this situation from someone who is an anti and disapproves of someone carrying a gun either concealed or openly. The only difference is that you have a mental issue with someone carrying a long gun because of your interpretation of social norms. Are the bullets going to start flying out of it any quicker than a pistol on someone’s hip? Not likely. Are they going to do more damage? Debatably, no. Could someone who is carrying concealed do much more potential damage than the guy who is openly carrying for everyone to see? Debatably, yes.
Yet, socially, us concealed and open carriers somehow have a problem with someone carrying small arms that are slightly larger than the one that we carry on our hip. Does this make us any different than the anti’s that we always rant about? In a way, it does not. Sure, we are going to be more situationally aware in any circumstance that seems odd/different/unfamiliar to our day to day routines. Should we, though? If you are correct, and the guy wearing the long gun is doing it for “political” purposes, why is this so wrong? The alternative being he is going to do something “evil” doesn’t seem nearly as likely. I can’t think of too many instances where the weird guy walking around with a long gun is out to shoot random people or target something/someone. Aren’t those guys typically the quiet discreet ones who hang up in a bell tower?
The antis see a pistol on someone’s hip and freak out because they think this person must be doing something “evil” or “politically motivated”. They don’t understand the need for self protection – or are completely uneducated and ignorant of the facts of the matter. They don’t see carrying a concealed weapon as a necessary tool. They see it as socially deviant. …They see the same things that you see in the guy with the long gun strapped to his back. In essence, they guy with the long gun strapped to his back is offending a slightly larger pool of people than those who do it secretly, or have a smaller small arm. In the end, I fail to see the difference between carrying a hidden gun, exposed gun, or slightly longer gun - other than psychological myths and social awkwardness. Maybe the guys with the long guns have it right, and all of us who conceal are the hypocrites.
June 14th, 2012 01:18 PM
Ed Brown Kobra 45
Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II
June 14th, 2012 07:35 PM
Great points. I can't speak for others, but my SA increases when I see someone with a long gun anywhere but the range or out hunting (or similar places where you might expect to see one). My SA also goes up when I see someone open carrying a handgun, and it would go up if I saw someone with an inconspicuous bulge that I suspected of being a concealed pistol. My SA would also go up if I saw someone with a sword...
Originally Posted by Lotus222
My SA would go up higher upon seeing someone slinging a long gun than seeing a holstered pistol precisely because this is outside of social norms, which begs the question if said person is 'abnormal' in some other way. Same is true to a lesser extent when it comes to a holstered OC pistol. But again this depends on other things as well. Like where I am. If I'm up in Alaska, I won't think twice about it. Other places would be different.
This all seems quite rational to me.
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