Ohioans may have to re-qualify to renew cc permits

Ohioans may have to re-qualify to renew cc permits

This is a discussion on Ohioans may have to re-qualify to renew cc permits within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Story here. What are your thoughts on this. Training rule may be eased for those renewing concealed-carry permits | The Columbus Dispatch...

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Thread: Ohioans may have to re-qualify to renew cc permits

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Ohioans may have to re-qualify to renew cc permits

    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

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    Not from Ohio, but IMO the legislation is the correct thing to do. The only thing "mandatory" training is going to do is put more money in someones pocket. Especially since there is no criteria for what the refresher training would entail. Leave it up to an elected official and you'll be shooting 500 rounds, taking a 100 question test and writing a 5 page essay on why you need a permit.
    eeeZnow, OhioCatter and msgt/ret like this.
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    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Let me leave aside the argument that, as 2A defenders, we do not, absolutely do not trust anyone in government who remotely in any way shape or form, puts limitations on anything to do with firearms etal. Having said that and if government was honest, which it is not, the idea that you have to requalify can make sense. In the article someone is quoted as saying that you never lose the ability for properly fire a gun----I assume that significant loss of sight and perhaps physical problems such as Parkinsons does not enter into his stupid statement. There can come a time, when you can be a danger to just about anyone if you are still CC and cannot focus or cannot even hold the gun from shaking. Should you still be able to CC? In SC and probably other states when you CC qualify, you can do so with any firearm and not necessarily your actual CC firearm. Even after you get your CCWP, you can change guns with no additional qualifying. So you can qualify with say a 22 and then go out and purchase a 50 calibre moose killing revolver and no one is the wiser. The fact that you can hardly hold the gun and probably will miss whatever you are aiming at does not even enter into the equation. Regardless, my distrust of government is so overwhelming that even with the above comments, I would look at any changes to existing 2A that limit any aspect of 2A with extreme suspicion.

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Having to qualify or requalify for any right is just plain outright wrong. PERIOD. No way no how I will change my mind on this. I don't care if someone can't hit the broadside of a barn. Judgement comes into play as much ifmore so when carrying a weapon and making the decision to use it for defending yourself. Perfectly healthy people misuse thier firearm all the time. Yet, they can hit a target 5 yard away. Whooppie doo! A right is a right is a right. Yes, it can be curtailed by courts for certain things like felons. Same as voting. If you think that someone with Parkinsons disease should have to requalify so he is not a threat to society I put forth to you that millions of idiots exercise their voting rights every year without a clue on what the issues are and who they are voting for thus causing much more damage to society than an isolated case of an errant shot by an old lady. Should there be classes before you go vote. And it is not an absurd arguement.

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    Distinguished Member Array OhioCatter's Avatar
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    I just renewed my permit ( on my second 5 yr stint ) and did not have to re-qualify. The next time it seems that I might though. I do not understand why our goverment and LEO want all law biding citizens to be unarmed and targets for the criminals.

    Heres how our judicial system and goverment works in the US.

    If you are a drunk driver we will let you accumulate as many DUI's as you like untill you finally kill someone then we will finally do something.
    If you are a drug dealer we will arrest you 10 times and let you go all 10 times for some reason or another. ( not enough evidence )
    If you are gang bangers doing whatever and causing problems you get a slap on the wrist and turned loose.
    If you are a murderer you may go to jail or not, serve 2yrs or 30yrs ( but get out early if you are a good boy ).

    Now you come to the Law biding citizens who take on the responsability of legally carrying a firearm. The classes, the courses, the training, the furthering of training, all the practice and so on. WOW!!!! we are the bad guys, we are the ones not to be trusted, we are the ones comitting the crimes. Give me a break. They ( goverment ) want us to be sheepels like the rest of the world.

    Sorry I got off the topic from the original OP but it burnes me that we have to jump through so many hoops for our rights. Admin if you find this reply is beyond scope of topic please feel free to delete it.
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Tx only requires passing a shooting test every 10 years,or every other renewal
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Having to qualify or requalify for any right is just plain outright wrong. PERIOD. No way no how I will change my mind on this. I don't care if someone can't hit the broadside of a barn. Judgement comes into play as much ifmore so when carrying a weapon and making the decision to use it for defending yourself. Perfectly healthy people misuse thier firearm all the time. Yet, they can hit a target 5 yard away. Whooppie doo! A right is a right is a right. Yes, it can be curtailed by courts for certain things like felons. Same as voting. If you think that someone with Parkinsons disease should have to requalify so he is not a threat to society I put forth to you that millions of idiots exercise their voting rights every year without a clue on what the issues are and who they are voting for thus causing much more damage to society than an isolated case of an errant shot by an old lady. Should there be classes before you go vote. And it is not an absurd arguement.
    I believe that people need to be taught what the laws in their states allow use of deadly force for.You vote for the wrong guy you have to live with the idjit til the next election,you shoot somebody because you felt justified and then claim you didn't realise you couldn't shoot somebody for stealing your newspaper and your going to prison...lotta difference,even LEO's attend classes on use of deadly force laws and qualify before they can carry a firearm
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    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    My attempt to put this in more relevant terms:

    Do they make lawyers take "competency training" to renew their licenses?

    Do judges have to take "competency training" to remain on the bench?
    Sky Pilot and CIBMike like this.
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I believe that people need to be taught what the laws in their states allow use of deadly force for.You vote for the wrong guy you have to live with the idjit til the next election,you shoot somebody because you felt justified and then claim you didn't realise you couldn't shoot somebody for stealing your newspaper and your going to prison...lotta difference,even LEO's attend classes on use of deadly force laws and qualify before they can carry a firearm
    Sorry. I politley disagree. It is a right. It is not up to someone to have to pass a test or take a class to exercise a right. That is the issue. IMO a lot of folks that have guns and CCP's are not capabale of using sound judgement to begin with. But when it comes to rights my opinion means squat as it should. I nor the gvt should impose restrictions and training to exercise something that should be guaranteed to all.

    As far as LEO's. They have to attend training becasue it is part of their job. Not so they can exercise a right as an individual. Look at NH where a LEO or anybody can carry without training but the same LEO for his JOB has to pass training requirements.

    Again, regardless of common sense, it is a right and no one has the authority to put qualifications on it.

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    As a resident of Columbus, a subscriber (reluctantly) to the Dispatch, and a former lawyer, I feel qualified to respond to this thread on any number of different levels.
    First, the bill referenced in the article, which bill has now passed the house, would REMOVE competency training for the renewal of CCW permits. I believe it will pass in the Senate as well.

    Second, the Dispatch hates guns almost as much as it likes homosexual marriage. Every time there is a move to bring Ohio law into line with the US Constitution, the Dispatch runs a series of editorials warning that the sky will fall. The laws pass; the sky doesn't fall; but the Dispatch never acknowledges the error of its forcast.

    Third, unlike bearing arms, there is no right to be a lawyer or a judge (thank God for that). But in Ohio, both lawyers and judges are required to take a certain number of hours of continuing legal education (CLE's) every year in order to maintain their license. These courses MUST include instruction on ethics and substance abuse. Call me cynical, but I have not noticed an increase in the number of sober, ethical lawyers since these requirements went into effect. For the most part, these courses serve only to lighten the wallets of those taking them and fatten the wallets of those teaching them. But I'll save this lawyer stuff for another rant.
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  11. #11
    MJK
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    I recently requalified on the second amendment and scored 100%! That should be all I need to renew my permit.
    [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. ---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

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    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I believe that people need to be taught what the laws in their states allow use of deadly force for.You vote for the wrong guy you have to live with the idjit til the next election,you shoot somebody because you felt justified and then claim you didn't realise you couldn't shoot somebody for stealing your newspaper and your going to prison...lotta difference,even LEO's attend classes on use of deadly force laws and qualify before they can carry a firearm
    For Kentucky I had to watch a video about all firearms laws and use of deadly force and physical force laws. I then had to put 11 of 20 rounds into a silhouette target at 7 yards. That's It. Halfway through the video i asked if I could just take the test as I already new all the laws. The answer was no because the time was required as class time. I did the live fire part of the test outside in Northern Kentucky in July heat covered in mosquitoes and sweat. It was 102 degrees and about 70% humidity. I was miserable.

    Kentucky Course requirements here http://www.kc3.com/kyccw/license_process.htm

    On a side note, my instructor told me my box of Black Talons were illegal because they were cop killers. Wow! This was someone who owned a gun shop at one time. Epic Fail!

    I told her Winchester voluntarily pulled the Black Talon and renamed them Ranger SXT. She argued but I let it go.
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

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    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhioCatter View Post
    I just renewed my permit ( on my second 5 yr stint ) and did not have to re-qualify. The next time it seems that I might though. I do not understand why our goverment and LEO want all law biding citizens to be unarmed and targets for the criminals.

    Heres how our judicial system and goverment works in the US.

    If you are a drunk driver we will let you accumulate as many DUI's as you like untill you finally kill someone then we will finally do something.
    If you are a drug dealer we will arrest you 10 times and let you go all 10 times for some reason or another. ( not enough evidence )
    If you are gang bangers doing whatever and causing problems you get a slap on the wrist and turned loose.
    If you are a murderer you may go to jail or not, serve 2yrs or 30yrs ( but get out early if you are a good boy ).

    Now you come to the Law biding citizens who take on the responsability of legally carrying a firearm. The classes, the courses, the training, the furthering of training, all the practice and so on. WOW!!!! we are the bad guys, we are the ones not to be trusted, we are the ones comitting the crimes. Give me a break. They ( goverment ) want us to be sheepels like the rest of the world.

    Sorry I got off the topic from the original OP but it burnes me that we have to jump through so many hoops for our rights. Admin if you find this reply is beyond scope of topic please feel free to delete it.
    With all due respect, I have had better arguments with rocks and walls. If you bothered to read my reply, I agree with you not based on stupid replies about people who have no business carrying firearms, but about a government that is rapidly turning into a dictatorship that I do not trust, will not yield to and will not allow to subvert my constitutional rights even if they are at my doorstep---they will go to hell before I go to heaven.

  14. #14
    Member Array OldMick's Avatar
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    And to clarify, unless I'm reading it wrong, "For the 67,000 Ohio residents with a concealed-weapons permit" speaks to licenses issued in 2010. There are over 250,000 citizens in Ohio with a license to carry a concealed firearm.

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    I'll throw in my $0.02 as someone who teaches Ohio CHL courses.

    First of all, the bill is going to remove the current need for competency re-certification, and even though it would put money in my pocket if the standard were kept, I still would like to see it done away with.

    One issue is that starting next year, people are going to be coming up on their second renewals, and what constitutes a "competency re-certification" still has not been defined. So, either the re-certification should go away, or we need to get rid of it. I am all for getting rid of it.

    As far as the training standard in Ohio, as I understand it, it is one of the more stringent training requirements. But, really it turns out to 8 hours in the classroom for a NRA basic pistol course, 2 hours live fire at the range, and two hours covering Ohio Laws. I am torn on the training issue, but generally come down in believing in personal responsibility, and that it should not be needed for a right. But, at the same time, I try to educate my students to the best of my and my fellow instructors' abilities, which is hard to do in just 12 hours. If it is required, I at least am going to make sure the students get their money's worth.

    This bill also fixes a few other things. It gets rid of a lot of redundant wording in the Ohio Revised Code. And, more importantly, fixes the definition of "loaded firearm" in a vehicle. The current definition is if the gun is somewhere in the vehicle, and there is a loaded magazine that fits the gun somewhere in the vehicle. So no loading up mags before the range.

    Every law that has passed pertaining to concealed carry since it went into effect in 2004 has made the law better, but it has been a long, and in no way perfect process. But, we are still working on it. I think this bill is just another step in the right direction.
    atctimmy and Sky Pilot like this.
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