College orientation yesterday (transfer students) college ccw carry

This is a discussion on College orientation yesterday (transfer students) college ccw carry within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So I did my transfer orientation yesterday at UA. according to their guide there is nothing wrong with a licensed person cc or OC on ...

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    Ex Member Array PIMking's Avatar
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    College orientation yesterday (transfer students) college ccw carry

    So I did my transfer orientation yesterday at UA. according to their guide there is nothing wrong with a licensed person cc or OC on campus. I will post a picture of it but here is the quote:

    " WEAPON POLICY ON CAMPUS

    Illegal or unauthorized possession of firearms ammunition, explosives, other weapons, or dangerous chemicals by students on University property is not allowed as indicated in the UA Student Code of Conduct. However, Students who have sporting, hunting, recreational or target weapons for off campus use may bring the item to UAPD for registration and free storage. Students are asked to bring proper identification, pistol permit (if applicable), the unloaded weapon and ammunition in a secure storage container. The check-in service is available 24 hours a day. "

    according to this since I have my permit I can carry on Campus.

    Also in their "personal conduct" booklet it states

    "D. offenses Disrupting Order or Disregarding Health and Safety

    #3 Illegal or unauthorized possession of firearms, explosives, other weapons, or dangerous chemicals on University premises"

    Interesting to say the leastweapons policy.jpg

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Caution. As your educational 'career' at that institution could depend on the wording, I'd dig a bit deeper.

    The meaning of "illegal" use certainly is clear. Don't be a criminal and criminally possess/use a weapon.

    The meaning of "unauthorized," though, can be tricky. Could it possibly mean that if they haven't authorized you to carry on campus your butt could get in a wringer? Think about it. A less than accommodating person at the school or on the school's police force could take it that way, and you'd have problems.

    My take: The wording of that campus Code Of Conduct doesn't specifically indicate that those with state-issued CHL are accepted as having every right to be on campus with a loaded, concealed firearm. Without something so clear as that, I'd say it's a toss-up as to whether they'd get bent over finding out you're carrying on campus.

    Suggestion: Get legitimate legal advice from a competent attorney who can speak to the legality and to ramifications with respect to the school and your enrollment (or ejection) as a student there, if you're uncertain.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; June 16th, 2012 at 06:57 PM. Reason: spelling
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    Member Array Wreckingba11's Avatar
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    Isn't it a federal law that denies carrying in school zones? In that case it doesn't really matter what the school says. That's what I was told by my ccw instructor. If not then more power to you, I'm jealous.

    Check and see if you have a chapter/club of Concealed Campus at your school. If that's even still a thing, I haven't heard anything from them in awhile.

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    Member Array hinkleid's Avatar
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    Please clarify that check in service. You can carry, but must FIRST check the weapon in on campus? I am surprised that in carry states carry is not allowed. I have been out of college for quite some time, so haven't kept up. I never thought about carrying on campus. But this was the day before Columbine, VA Tech, and the multitude of others.
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    I think your interpreting it wrong. According to what I'm reading, your welcome to bring your authorized weapon, straight to the campus police for storage while your there.
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    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PIMking View Post
    So I did my transfer orientation yesterday at UA. according to their guide there is nothing wrong with a licensed person cc or OC on campus. I will post a picture of it but here is the quote:

    " WEAPON POLICY ON CAMPUS

    Illegal or unauthorized possession of firearms ammunition, explosives, other weapons, or dangerous chemicals by students on University property is not allowed as indicated in the UA Student Code of Conduct. However, Students who have sporting, hunting, recreational or target weapons for off campus use may bring the item to UAPD for registration and free storage. Students are asked to bring proper identification, pistol permit (if applicable), the unloaded weapon and ammunition in a secure storage container. The check-in service is available 24 hours a day. "

    according to this since I have my permit I can carry on Campus.

    Also in their "personal conduct" booklet it states

    "D. offenses Disrupting Order or Disregarding Health and Safety

    #3 Illegal or unauthorized possession of firearms, explosives, other weapons, or dangerous chemicals on University premises"

    Interesting to say the leastweapons policy.jpg
    So... if you have a permit, they'll store your weapon for you? Doesn't sound like you can carry on campus, just to campus.
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    Member Array hinkleid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhamrichard View Post
    I think your interpreting it wrong. According to what I'm reading, your welcome to bring your authorized weapon, straight to the campus police for storage while your there.
    That is how I seem to interpret it too. Like you should not leave it in your vehicle on campus. I don't see checking in, then checking back out to carry.

    I wonder the penalty if it is discovered you are carrying on campus (say in a carry state), but you have a state issued carry permit. In my book, the security of concealing may outweigh the risk of penalty? Not condoning law breaking though.
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    Member Array gobbly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckingba11 View Post
    Isn't it a federal law that denies carrying in school zones? In that case it doesn't really matter what the school says. That's what I was told by my ccw instructor. If not then more power to you, I'm jealous.

    Check and see if you have a chapter/club of Concealed Campus at your school. If that's even still a thing, I haven't heard anything from them in awhile.
    The FGFSZA specifically exempts those who have been issued a permit by the state in which the school resides. This doesn't exempt you from any state or local law, so if you state forbids it, or a more local law or school policy forbids it and your state has no preemption law, you wouldn't be exempt based on the GFSZA. Also, for you to be exempt, your state permit would have to require a background check.

    I also have been lead to believe that without a permit, even the transportation clause of the GFSZA is difficult, because the federal definition of unloaded is often much more restrictive than your state's definition of loaded, and without the permit issued by the state the school is in, you would be required to comply with the federal definition of unloaded.

    Here's the actual language, I edited in some colors to clarify the sections that might be of interest to the topic:
    http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Act.pdf

    18 USC § 922 Unlawful acts
    (q)(1) The Congress finds and declares that—
    (A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is
    a pervasive, nationwide problem;
    (B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the
    interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal
    gangs;
    (C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate
    commerce and have been found in increasing numbers
    in and around schools, as documented in numerous
    hearings in both theJudiciary Committee o n the
    Judiciary of the House of Representatives and
    Judiciary t h e Committee o n the Judiciary o f the
    Senate;
    (D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its
    component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials
    from which they are made have considerably moved in
    interstate commerce;
    (E) while criminals freely move from State to State,
    ordinary citizens and foreign visitors may fear to
    travel to or through certain parts of the country due to
    concern about violent crime and gun violence, and
    parents may decline to send their children to school
    for the same reason;
    (F) the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has
    resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our
    country;
    (G) this decline in the quality of education has an adverse
    impact on interstate commerce and the foreign
    commerce of the United States;
    (H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost
    impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves;
    even t h emselves--eve n States, localities, and school
    systems that have made strong efforts to prevent,
    detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts
    unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of
    other States or localities to take strong measures; and
    (I) t h e C ongress has t h e p ower, under the interstate
    commerce clause and other provisions of the
    Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the
    integrity and safety of the Nation’s N a tion' s schools by
    enactment of this subsection.
    (2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to
    possess a firearm t h at has moved in or that otherwise
    affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that
    the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to
    believe, is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) shall d o es not apply to the
    possession of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to
    do so by the State in which the school zone is located
    or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of
    the State or political subdivision requires that, before
    an individual obtain s such a license, the law
    enforcement authorities of the State or political
    subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
    under law to receive the license;

    (iii) which t h a t is—
    (I) not loaded; and
    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack
    which t h a t is on a motor vehicle;

    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a
    school in the school zone;
    (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered
    into between a school in the school zone and the
    individual or an employer of the individual;
    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her
    official capacity; or
    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual
    while traversing school premises for the purpose of
    gaining access to public or private lands open to
    hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized
    by school authorities.
    (3)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be
    unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless
    disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or
    attempt to discharge a firearm t h at has moved in or
    that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce
    at a place that the person knows is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) shall d o es not apply to the discharge
    of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school
    zone, by an individual who is participating in the
    program;
    (iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract
    entered into between a school in a school zone and the
    individual or an employer of the individual; or
    (iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her
    official capacity.
    (4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as
    preempting or preventing a State or local government
    from enacting a statute establishing gun-free g un free
    school zones as provided in this subsection.
    18 USC § 921 Definitions
    (a) As used in this chapter—
    (25) The term “school zone” means—
    (A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or
    private school; or
    (B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of
    a public, parochial or private school.
    (26) The term “school” means a school which provides
    elementary or secondary education, as determined
    under State law.
    Edit: the advice to contact an attorney who specialized in firearms law is good advice :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckingba11 View Post
    Isn't it a federal law that denies carrying in school zones? In that case it doesn't really matter what the school says. That's what I was told by my ccw instructor. If not then more power to you, I'm jealous.

    Check and see if you have a chapter/club of Concealed Campus at your school. If that's even still a thing, I haven't heard anything from them in awhile.
    First, be careful how "school" is used. I know of no Federal law re: "colleges" -- albeit some states include colleges in their school bans.

    Re: Title 18 U.S.C. §921(25) The term “school zone” means—
    (A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or (B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school. (26) The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.
    [emphasis added]

    As to K-12, Gun-Free School Zones Act (GFSZA) i.e., 1702 of the Crime Control Act of 1990 note the wording

    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;

    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    In plain language the feds sort of default to the state on this issue.

    Be sure to note the "State in which the school zone is located", which could be tricky for those carrying on out-of-state permits.
    Last edited by DaveH; June 16th, 2012 at 04:12 PM. Reason: spacing, yet again
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    that seems like pretty standard language they used since my college was worded almost exactly the same way. when I asked the campus cops whether that meant I could carry with a permit (it was in NY you need a permit for everything) they told me CC was not allowed on campus but they would store a legally owned firearm so I could have it for hunting/target shooting. I didn't live on campus so this provided no benefit to me.

    Being a state school in NY I knew there was no chance of appealing or changing anything when it comes to gun control

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    Senior Member Array Dadsnugun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PIMking View Post
    ...for off campus use...
    I'm no lawyer, but these 4 words give me pause.
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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Who in the university has authorized you to carry on campus?
    The way I read that the policy allows students who live on campus and would have to leave their weapons back home the opportunity to keep them on campus at the police station where it is convenient for them.
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    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    I don't at all see what the original poster says is the case.
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    When I read what the OP posted, and I am NOT a lawyer, but you can bring your weapon to campus and check it in for off campus use. Sort of sounds like you are taking a class..i.e. gunsmithing...that you can bring it in and check it. The living on campus never crossed my mind until another poster mentioned it.

    I didn't read any where a CCW would be valid.

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