A succint and defensible set of "Why a firearm is not an evil thing..." Quite long.

A succint and defensible set of "Why a firearm is not an evil thing..." Quite long.

This is a discussion on A succint and defensible set of "Why a firearm is not an evil thing..." Quite long. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Folks, Apologies if this thread has been raised and closd before. As we have seen in the last couple of threads, Bloomberg, FFL student being ...

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Thread: A succint and defensible set of "Why a firearm is not an evil thing..." Quite long.

  1. #1
    Member Array everalm's Avatar
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    A succint and defensible set of "Why a firearm is not an evil thing..." Quite long.

    Folks,

    Apologies if this thread has been raised and closd before.

    As we have seen in the last couple of threads, Bloomberg, FFL student being "made" by friends etc there are a lot of folks out there who for a variety of reasons have issues with firearms.

    This is a CCW issue but not exclusively one as every owner of a firearm has probably been beasted by the un-informed at some point or other.

    Now, I am fully for personal choice, if you don't want/desire/need etc that's your perogative and we should all support it.

    However we need to get the issue of INFORMED decision across.

    What I would ask is that folks think of those arguable and defensible reasons to

    A. Own personal firearms
    B. Have the applicable legal right for CCW where permitted by law.

    This is not a "My state is bad", "Because the 2nd Amendment says so", "they should just get it" flame war invitation.....

    The idea is to get a succinct set of responses that we can not just trot out but believe in. That sort of calm, reasoned, informed belief convinces folks a lot better than ""Cause I can" and may end up shepherding a few of the unelightened our way.

    I'll kick off,

    Mary comes by and asks....

    "Why do you have a pistol in the house, isn't it dangerous/someone might get hurt...?"

    "Mary, I won't start off on a long spiel on how the 2nd amendment guarantees all of us the right if we desire to hold and bear arms. I know that one can sound like a bit of a cop out. The issue is more that that alone, it's about people taking personal responsibility.

    The founding fathers thought long and hard over the Constitution and Bill of Rights and the basis of law is that if it's not explicitly illegal, it is legal. So I follow the law and have made an informed decision.

    As for dangerous and hurt, a firearm CAN harm or kill but so can a steak knife, a frying pan, a car or a naked flame.

    Like any reasonable person I take responsibility for my actions. A firearm can harm or kill so I take measures to ensure it is and remains safe.

    Mary
    "OK....Like I get it.....I know about that 2nd Amendment...

    But a gun can kill soooooo easily and what if a child's in the house?
    In any case I just don't like them!!!"

    You get the idea....We got 'em hooked and talking now lets get the good, justifiable, emotion free reasons....in no particular order.

    Well it is legal (where its legal)

    Cheaper sport than golf....(couldn't resist that one)

    A firearm is a tool no different than any other be it a screwdriver, a box cutter, a power drill or a lathe. If you abuse it, don't follow the instructions, maintain it or treat it like a toy it WILL bite you just the same. A reasonable person knows this and acts accordingly.

    A burglar in your house hears a high pitched "Help I'm being robbed....Sure ma'am we'll have someone round on Tuesday" OR "Police, I have an intruder in the house and I am armed"... Which chat motivates Mr Burglar?

    The police do the job they are paid for with the funds they have. That means thay can NEVER be where you need them WHEN you need them every or even most times. Please feel free to pay triple your taxes.......and still get robbed from time to time.

    You pay for insurance don't you...?

    I keep an emergency flashlight by the bed, this is for an emergency that a flashlight can't handle.

    As has been seen in the recent past, Katrina as an example, bad things do happen to good people. Sometimes good people need the sort of assistance that can protect them, their families or loved ones.

    If you are 5'6" and 120lb and he is 6'5" and 260lb then you can either let nature take it's course or stand up and a firearm can assist you.

    A firearm does not make you

    6" higher
    75lb of muscle heavier
    Faster
    Cleverer
    Better or more moral

    It allows you to AVOID a situation where you NEED to be all of the above. I know this as a truth and hold it to my heart.

    Please feel free to flame if this has been beaten to death before but I feel that it is not enough to say, "I can so I will", I want others to understand and accept even if they disagree. The best defense on this whole issue is to have the right answers available so we don't think of the perfect response 10 minutes later....
    As one of my old sergeants used to say. "WE do not play at spray and play.......Do we.... Sir....."

    Remember children, when we have removed the pin from Mr Grenade, Mr Grenade is no longer our friend......


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Wayne's Avatar
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    Well, I will honestly say that I have guns as well as knives, scissors, matches and glass drinking glasses:

    I've cut myself an untold number of times. I wasn't paying attention or I wasn't doing what I was doing safely because I wasn't thinking to myself "gee, I could hurt myself with this thing".

    Scissors. You know that old saying "don't run with scissors", it's true (ya ya, and I was about 32 at the time also, trying to catch the phone).

    Matches: Set my coffee table on fire. Threw the match into the ashtray cause I had to go... whooose. I use that table to clean my guns and have spilled hoppes on it. It is flammable even soaked into the wood. (edited to expand: The match bonced out of the ashtray onto the table and it wasn't out yet. Had to go was to the errr, throne room)

    Glass Glasses: cut my hand opened by washing one.

    Firearms: Never had an AD, ND or anything else in the house (just one ND when I was alot younger and more stupid).

    Wayne

  3. #3
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    I'll make a quick cheat for now and repeat from a thread I made not too long ago - which was a synopsis of a conversation I had with a guy on the subject of CCW and guns.

    It so happened I was at the time carrying open on private property, among gun-friendly buddies.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Sheep - ''Is that a gun?'' (well it sure ain't a cup of Starbucks!)

    Self - "Yes it is"

    Sheep - "Isn't that rather dangerous?"

    Self - "Do you see it doing anything dangerous?"

    Sheep - " Er - well no"

    Self - "Does it bother you?"

    Sheep - "Scares me a bit"

    Self - "Why would that be then?"

    Sheep - "Guns kill don't they?"

    Self - "They can, but so can automobiles"

    Sheep - "Why do you need to have one?"

    Self - "I choose to take responsibility for my own safety"

    Sheep - "Isn't that what police are for?"

    Self - "Do you know what can happen inside even 2 minutes of response time?"

    Sheep - "But - surely all you have to do is what you are told?"

    Self - "And - if they are going to shoot you anyways - what then?"

    Sheep - "Hmmm - hadn't thought of that"

    Self - "Do you carry a spare tire in your car"

    Sheep - "Yes - of course"

    Self - "Why?"

    Sheep - "In case I get a flat and need it"

    Self - "Would you travel without that spare?"

    Sheep - "No - of course I wouldn't"

    Self - "So - you plan for the worst then?"

    Sheep - "Yes" - beginning to see cerebral cogs turning.

    Self - "Is this gun I carry so much different then?"

    Sheep - "Uh - no I suppose not"

    Self - "So - am I being paranoid?"

    Sheep - "Guess not"

    QED!!!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  4. #4
    Member Array Dan M.'s Avatar
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post
    Self - "Would you travel without that spare?"

    Sheep - "No - of course I wouldn't"

    Self - "So - you plan for the worst then?"

    Sheep - "Yes" - beginning to see cerebral cogs turning.

    Self - "Is this gun I carry so much different then?"

    When was the last time you heard of anybody being arrested for brandishing a spare tire? ;)

  5. #5
    Member Array Jungle Work's Avatar
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    Dan M's
    When was the last time you heard of anybody being arrested for brandishing a spare tire? ;)
    Maybe, but can you tell me the last time you heard of a brandished spare tire saving someone's life from a murderer, a robber, or a rapist?:)
    Graduate: University of South Vietnam-
    School of Jungle Warfare

    CURRAHEE My Brothers In Blood

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array swiftyjuan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
    Well, I will honestly say that I have guns as well as knives, scissors, matches and glass drinking glasses:

    I've cut myself an untold number of times. I wasn't paying attention or I wasn't doing what I was doing safely because I wasn't thinking to myself "gee, I could hurt myself with this thing".

    Scissors. You know that old saying "don't run with scissors", it's true (ya ya, and I was about 32 at the time also, trying to catch the phone).

    Matches: Set my coffee table on fire. Threw the match into the ashtray cause I had to go... whooose. I use that table to clean my guns and have spilled hoppes on it. It is flammable even soaked into the wood. (edited to expand: The match bonced out of the ashtray onto the table and it wasn't out yet. Had to go was to the errr, throne room)

    Glass Glasses: cut my hand opened by washing one.

    Firearms: Never had an AD, ND or anything else in the house (just one ND when I was alot younger and more stupid).

    Wayne
    Dang Wayne!
    You are seriously dangerous! Especially to yourself!! Of course, I have cut myself so many times with pocket knives, I'm lucky my wife is a nurse...
    John
    Assault is a behavior, not a device.

    "Don't never take no shortcuts." Patty Reed, Donner Party

    Lifetime NRA member

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array .45acp's Avatar
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    Not too bad but I'd lose the part about "guns can kill", maybe it should be "guns can be used to kill if the situation warrants it" and perhaps point out where cars have been intentionally used to kill.

    It might help on a sub-consious level to releive the fear of this "evil black instrument of death" and to imprint the idea that the gun will not jump up and start killing of it's own accord.

    These Antis seem to work at an emotional, sub-consious level. Perhaps imprinting the idea that a gun is an inanimate object under your control is the way to deal with them on that level.

    Perhaps, depending on the individual you might make light of the matter after explaining the above.
    I might point at the gun and say "sit boy, no shooting people today, good gun" thus allowing them to laugh a little and see how silly and unfounded their fears are.
    Last edited by .45acp; September 15th, 2006 at 06:30 AM.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Well, I will honestly say that I have guns as well as knives, scissors, matches and glass drinking glasses
    Exactly. They are tools. A knife, firearm and cell phone are about the only things that can take the place of the mythical, private police escort.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  9. #9
    Member Array soundwave's Avatar
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    I think we should tread lightly when it comes to mentioning the 2nd Amendment. The legal interpretation of the 2nd Amendment applies to a state-controlled militia (e.g. remember that the amendment starts "A well-regulated militia...). This is now known as the National Guard, the Constitution created a "standing militia" now known as the various branches (e.g. Army, Navy, etc.). This was passed down as the ruling of what the amendment means from the Supreme Court (U.S. v. Cruikshank, 1876; Presser v. Illinois, 1886; Miller v. Texas, 1894; U.S. v. Miller, 1939;Lewis v. U.S., 1980; and numerous lower courts and appeals).

    Not that I'm agreeing with it, however, that is the legal meaning of it. You could go into how the amendments were basically a reiteration of the English Bill of Rights of 1689 when US citizens were called into service of a state-controlled militia (e.g. state militia similar to jury duty), the Constituation was created but the states were afraid they'd lose their authority to have a militia, etc., but that's a little much in casual conversation/education.

    I would think that when mentioning the 2nd Amendment that it would be better to mention that the Constitution -- as well as various laws across federal and state lines -- work to support the view that the government recognizes that there they are not obligated to provide general protection to every citizen. That, through these laws, they enable citizens to defend themselves, their family, their community, and the general populace from harm and murder. That they expect the public to provide its own protection, where and when needed.

    By arming yourself, you are preparing for the where and when needed which could be anywhere, anytime.

    Cheers.

    BTW... States are more easily quoted when it comes to an individual's right to bear arms. For instance, Arizona:

    Arizona State Constitution, Article 2. "Section 26. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men."

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