Post Office Carry

Post Office Carry

This is a discussion on Post Office Carry within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is what I found in the U.S. Code. IIRC the first part is what is on the signs at the post office. They leave ...

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  1. #1
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    Post Office Carry

    This is what I found in the U.S. Code. IIRC the first part is what is on the signs at the post office. They leave off the other sections on the sign.

    The question would be is legally carrying concealed ,just in case you need it, be considered a "lawful purpose".


    Section 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
    possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous
    weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility),
    or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned
    not more than 1 year, or both.
    (b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon
    be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes
    to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal
    facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or
    imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
    (c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of
    subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal
    facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon,
    or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as
    provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to -
    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer,
    agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political
    subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or
    supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or
    prosecution of any violation of law;
    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a
    Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such
    possession is authorized by law; or
    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
    in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful
    purposes.


    (e)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly
    possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court
    facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title,
    imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
    (2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described
    in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
    (f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the
    United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or
    orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of
    weapons within any building housing such court or any of its
    proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
    (g) As used in this section:
    (1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part
    thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal
    employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing
    their official duties.
    (2) The term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device,
    instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is
    used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious
    bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket
    knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.
    (3) The term "Federal court facility" means the courtroom,
    judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms,
    attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the
    court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States
    marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of
    any court of the United States.

    (h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be
    posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal
    facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted
    conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court
    facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under
    subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such
    notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had
    actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.




  2. #2
    Member Array Rumble's Avatar
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    It would seem to be. However, I saw a different analysis by a lawyer with expertise in firearms law that made the argument that in fact, another section of the code also governs this sort of thing and defines (by a lengthy and confusing analysis of the two code sections) "lawful purpose" to exclude concealed carry or civilian carry. I wish I could track that down now...I'll see if I can turn it up.

  3. #3
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    YES ! As always,the magic word is,"INTENT". When you walked into a PO did you intend to break any law ?? If it can be proven that you had intent,weather any law was broken or not,you are illegal. (This,IMO) -------

  4. #4
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    Have you been in a Post Office that wasn't posted? All the ones I have been in are posted in accordance with state law.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

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    Something else to think of, Does your state forbid carry in Government buildings and parks? From my understanding it would forstall any carry in a Federal Building irregardless of the federal code

    just a plug nickle
    "[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons.
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    Since the law of the state I reside in disallows carry in government buildings and post offices it's a bit of moot point. The reality is what does the law of your state specify.
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakotaranger View Post
    Something else to think of, Does your state forbid carry in Government buildings and parks? From my understanding it would forstall any carry in a Federal Building irregardless of the federal code

    just a plug nickle

    That's the thing, a post office is not a federal building technically. But I don't want to be the poster child that get's found carrying in one to see what happens either and made the example of. This is one of those gray area's that is discussed to death. Do a search and you will find other post's about this too.


    Ti.
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  8. #8
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    Ti's hit the nail on the head. The problem is, carrying in a PO has not been tested in court, so we really don't know how a local or federal court might rule on this.

    I understand that there is a case in court, or on the way, concerning this very thing.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    Have you been in a Post Office that wasn't posted? All the ones I have been in are posted in accordance with state law.
    The Post Office near my house doesn't have the no carry signs. Not sure about the others in Lexington though.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    I'll have to go back and reread the laws but I think FL MAY list the PO specificly. I could be wrong though. Glad this was brought up! I'll let you know what I find.
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

  11. #11
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    My post office is not posted.
    It only states
    No Dogs Allowed - No Food or Drinks.

    Question: When was the last time you ever heard or read about somebody going into the post office to buy stamps being thrown up against the wall...told to SPREAD EM' & was then "strip Searched" or frisked for no reason?

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    My post office is not posted.
    It only states
    No Dogs Allowed - No Food or Drinks.

    Question: When was the last time you ever heard or read about somebody going into the post office to buy stamps being thrown up against the wall...told to SPREAD EM' & was then "strip Searched" or frisked for no reason?
    Exponentially less than I've heard of robberies or shootings at Post Offices...

  13. #13
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    Florida does not prohibit Post Office carry in our CCW law.

    However, carrying of a weapon in a post office is forbidden under 39 CFR 232.1(l):

    (l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.
    Now, the above regulation does not carry much of a penalty in and of itself ($50 fine, up to 30 days in jail), but it negates the "other lawful purposes" exception, since it is not lawful to carry a weapon into the post office.

    Matt
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  14. #14
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    This subject is always open to much debate on the various boards, and there are always good arguments for those that beleive it is lawful to carry and and those that dont.

    It seems to me that one of the biggest obstacles for understanding is the fact that we have two conflicting parts of federal law, both of which have beeen presented here.

    Section 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
    in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful
    purposes.

    and then you have this one;

    However, carrying of a weapon in a post office is forbidden under 39 CFR 232.1(l):
    Quote:
    (l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

    Which appears to be contrary to the above.

    Since we have conflicting laws, most lawyers will be very hestitant to reccommend any action regarding this subject.

    We've got a few laywers here..why dont you guys chime in ?
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    Florida does not prohibit Post Office carry in our CCW law.

    However, carrying of a weapon in a post office is forbidden under 39 CFR 232.1(l): Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

    Now, the above regulation does not carry much of a penalty in and of itself ($50 fine, up to 30 days in jail), but it negates the "other lawful purposes" exception, since it is not lawful to carry a weapon into the post office.

    Matt
    Matt, herein lies the rub, "except for official purposes". I have asked in several Post Offices and have never gotten a definitive answer to what that phrase means. If I ask this question, "If I come into the Post Office to buy stamps am I there for official purposes?" I will get an affirmative answer everytime. If I then point out the poster http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/posters/pos158.pdf and ask if buying stamps is official business for the purposes of Title 39 CFR 232.1 as indicated on the poster I get one of three responses. I get a yes or no direct answer (split about 50/50 yes and no), I get an I don't know response, or I get a look of total confusion. It seems that the USPS does not know what constitutes "official purposes".
    The post master at the little Post Office in our town tells me that when I come in to conduct business here that constitutes "official purposes." So I do not disarm before going in to this Post Office.
    George

    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein

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