Reality Check - Large guns, big calibers, lotsa training...or not so much? - Page 2

Reality Check - Large guns, big calibers, lotsa training...or not so much?

This is a discussion on Reality Check - Large guns, big calibers, lotsa training...or not so much? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have tools with me at all times. My handgun is another tool and I don't know in advance how and when I might need ...

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Thread: Reality Check - Large guns, big calibers, lotsa training...or not so much?

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array Yoda's Avatar
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    I have tools with me at all times. My handgun is another tool and I don't know in advance how and when I might need to use it. But I try to keep it with me all the time along with leatherman and flashlight.


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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    I hate. No, I mean HATE... HATE HATE HATE that quote "A gun is supposed to be comforting and not comfortable". Every time I hear it it makes my head want to explode. If I ever meet Clint Smith I will tell him I think that I on my top 5 list of dumbest things that have ever been said in regards to firearms. There is NO reason that carrying a firearm can not be both comfortable and comforting. Saying that "Carrying a gun is supposed to be comforting and not comfortable" (and I mean this in the nicest possible way) just makes him sound like a elitist jerk bag.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    I hate. No, I mean HATE... HATE HATE HATE that quote "A gun is supposed to be comforting and not comfortable". Every time I hear it it makes my head want to explode. If I ever meet Clint Smith I will tell him I think that I on my top 5 list of dumbest things that have ever been said in regards to firearms. There is NO reason that carrying a firearm can not be both comfortable and comforting. Saying that "Carrying a gun is supposed to be comforting and not comfortable" (and I mean this in the nicest possible way) just makes him sound like a elitist jerk bag.

    OD* likes this.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Probably a lack of resolve may be a better term for both our " intents", lol.
    But, my point still stands, that everytime we hear of a real defensive shooting, more often than not, it's the guy or gal who grabbed a gun from a pocket, purse, or drawer, and cut loose.

    While I can appreciate the term " designer gun", which appropriately fits in with my " designer bullets" pet peeve, there seems to be alot of compensation for training and caliber being made up for by adrenaline dumps by Sam and Suzy citizen across the U.S. of A.

    There's something to be said for having any gun handy and desperate determination.
    No doubt that determination can make up for a lot of things but complacency and a false sense of security.

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array multistage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    I hate. No, I mean HATE... HATE HATE HATE that quote "A gun is supposed to be comforting and not comfortable". Every time I hear it it makes my head want to explode. If I ever meet Clint Smith I will tell him I think that I on my top 5 list of dumbest things that have ever been said in regards to firearms. There is NO reason that carrying a firearm can not be both comfortable and comforting. Saying that "Carrying a gun is supposed to be comforting and not comfortable" (and I mean this in the nicest possible way) just makes him sound like a elitist jerk bag.
    It's not so much that I'd like to hear you berate Clint Smith.

    I just want to hear his reply.
    OD* likes this.

  6. #21
    Member Array dean1818's Avatar
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    The overwheming odds are that none of us reading this will ever use our CCW in a SD situation.

    But"..............If the situation is forced on me, I want to have the best outcome. I think at least some training with a big enough round will increase the odds

    Additionally, why not practice? I do it because i enjoy shooting.

    Also, there is a huge misunderstanding on how sound is measured.

    A 2 db increase in sound is significant. Remember a 3 db increase is DOUBLE in sound.
    An imperfect servant of my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ

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    What non-shooter are YOU planning on taking to the range?

  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    It seems to me, that the only people who are getting into the real SD situations in real life are the people who are not doing any training at all, or the ones who have the convenient gun on them when it happens.

    Actually, if you look back in history, for better or worse, in non wartime incidents performed by average Joe, the deed was done with a small gun. John Wilkes Booth, Sir Han, John Lennons assassin, John Hinkley, Jack Ruby, and George Zimmerman, all used small guns easily carried and concealed upon their person. While the murders or attempted murders cannot be justified, the Keltec P-11 that Zimmerman used seems to have worked pretty damn good.

    I'd say that a small gun used with great intent has a pretty damn good track record of getting the job done for it's user. One shot was all it took, and lights out for all intended recipients.

    I doubt any of the went to Thunder Ranch.
    glockman, think the answer to that in bold can be found in your first post of this thread.

    I agree with this line of thinking. From my experience in dealing with criminals on the street, the firearms training that is pushed by the business engine of tactical training, is much less important than other aspects of SD. How you conduct yourself, carry yourself, and learning to pick up on the little things in those sticky situations are much more important than " run and gun" methods pushed today.
    I think those with training show a air of confidence and control, which causes the BG to give them a pass.

    Do I think most need all the tactical cool looking stuff of working in teams or fighting with rifle ect. NO most Joe's just want to go to work, play and get home safe. But I do think one needs the knowledge of good pistol shooting, handling and gunfighting with a pistol. That training will help not only with the confidence and control but also help in getting ones mindset where it needs to be. For if you are in a situation the fight starts a lot more with your mind and thinking than the actual gun.

    As to gun size I carry a XDsc some would call that a small gun but it still holds 14 or 17-19 round depending on mag. I shoot it as well as my service which is my HD gun. I see it coming down to being able to get hits on the BG before he gets hits on you and having enough rounds on broad to do the job at hand. If your situation is more than 1 BG I don't see 5-7 rounds in the gun as enough. But that's something we all make the call on for ourselves.

    Just some of my thoughts
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Bill, I think theres alot of substance in what you say.
    I think it it may really come down to the fine line of differentuating between a greenhorn who has absolutely no idea how to fire, carry or deploy the weapon, and someone with a good base knowledge. I think the difference would make a huge difference, if we consider that the person with a base knowledge may have at least grown up with a working knowledge or gained some experience along the way.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    The 1911 is actually one of the slimmest handguns out there, and because of that, it can conceal well. I don't carry one.

    It weighs more empty than my CZ does loaded. And my CZ weighs more than my P64. I most often carry the P-64, but carry the CZ 82 almost as much.

    Both the CZ and the P64 are surplus weapons that I have gone through completely. So they didn't cost a lot, they work flawlessly, and they are very accurate out to about 50 yards (from a vise). The guns are far more accurate than I, certainly. I ain't got no designer bullets, I use Russian made Silver Bear 9X17 in FMJ and JHP.

    So, there you got my gris-gris.

    Do I train..? Sure. Not as much as I should... no, scratch that, could... Is it enough? Maybe, maybe not... But, I've had a permit for going on 35 years, and I've only exposed my holstered weapon one time to preempt a potentially physical confrontation from a couple of guys who were part of a larger group that were intent on doing me (specifically) harm. (They'd already tried to blow up my vehicle in front of my home).

    Am I prepared for the body-armored psychopathic ninja criminal who wants the 5$ in my wallet, and after getting that will bind me up, throw me in a pit, and start skinning me for his entertainment? Probably not.

    Am I prepared for the average street thug, who thinks I might be an easy target..? Certainly.

    Am I prepared for the drug-addled, pain immune crack/meth/bath salts using, face eating, lunatic who thinks I'm his next fix? I think so... I'm smarter than he is... and I'm probably not anywhere near his part of town... But if he should venture out of his home turf... and start stripping off all his clothes because he's sooooooo hotttttttt... I'll probably be observant enough to catch that out of the corner of my eye...and prepare for him one way or another...

    So, I got's my Mojo hand, my John-the-Conqueror root, and my gris-gris....

    Mr. Bad guy,
    Bring it. I ain't afraid to die... I know where I'll end up. And if it's my time, well, it's my time. If it ain't mine...It must be yours... and we both know where you goin' if it is.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  10. #25
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    'Some really good points on this thread (too many to 'like' em all)...

    Most often, when I'm recommending training to a noob, I'm referring to basic safety and operation training. 'Having been around guns all their life' and prior military experience, often doesn't count. My dad has been around guns for 79 years and will still pick one up with his finger on the trigger. The Coast Guard instilled 5 years of bad habits into me that took years to unlearn.

    Of course the next logical step is proper defensive tactic training and shooting. However, if every gun owner simply knew and breathed the 4 basic rules, I'd be content. It's the novice who buys a firearm (like it's a pocket knife) and just starts carrying it, that sends a chill down my spine.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

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