Carry trigger

Carry trigger

This is a discussion on Carry trigger within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Anyone know if a 3lb trigger pull is too lite for a carry weapon from a liability standpoint?...

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  1. #1
    Member Array eagleeye's Avatar
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    Carry trigger

    Anyone know if a 3lb trigger pull is too lite for a carry weapon from a liability standpoint?


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    I don't think any manufacturer would put a trigger that light on a defensive weapon. Let that be your guide.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    I am NOT a lawyer, nor should you seek out or accept ANY legal advice on an anonymous chat board.

    AFAIK, there is no MN law on your trigger pull. I have never even read or heard of ONE anecdote where someone was prosecuted on that metric. That said, all my carry guns are stock. I am a healthy male, and don't need a hair trigger on my ccw.
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    Member Array Cruel Hand Luke's Avatar
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    Your trigger weight will only come into play if you ACCIDENTALLY shoot someone.

    Self Defense is an intentional act. You can't accidentally defend yourself. "The gun went off" is the argument made by people who shot people who didn't REALLY need to be shot.

    If you shoot someone and then say "oops, I didn't mean it, the gun just went off" THEN you are opening yourself up to whether YOU set the stage for the negligent discharge by using a "hair trigger". Real simple.... If they don't need to be shot...don't shoot 'em. If they DO need to be shot....shoot 'em and own it. Don't try to weasel out by saying it was an accident.

    If you say "Hell yes I shot them and I am justified in doing so because I was in fear of grave bodily injury and death" then your trigger pull weight is pretty irrelevant.
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    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    I have a 3.5 Ghost Rocket for my G19, I think it is fine as long as you shoot the gun enough to know the trigger inside out.
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    Member Array jon_volk's Avatar
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    Shoot a heavy double action every once in awhile. Itll make any striker or SA trigger feel like super light.
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  7. #7
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagleeye View Post
    Anyone know if a 3lb trigger pull to lite for a carry weapon from a liability standpoint?
    Ask yourself how much more concerned over a ND you'd be with your own rig, during holstering/unholstering.

    Ask yourself whether the average person would be concerned over his or her child were shot in an encounter in which a gun with a 3 lb trigger were used.

    IMO, there's good reason why DAO triggers (and others) are well north of the 3 lb setting. And, as suggested, good reason we don't see manufacturers delivering factory firearms with such settings. 'Cause the concern over liability exists, justified or not.

    In his Judicious Use of Deadly Force seminars, Massad Ayoob makes a point of recommending that carriers of firearms document their justification for equipment/feature selection, specifically for reasons over potential future liability challenges. You never know what an aggressive prosecutor's going to dredge up for an argument that your actions were in some way negligent ... whether it's the "Death Dealer" engraving on your .454 Casull carry gun, the 2.5 lb "hair" trigger, or your choice of armor-piercing bullets.

    Remember, in most every state, it's the reasonable man standard you'll be held up against, not your own.

    NOTE: For those who would misinterpret, this is not a claim that one has liability at a given trigger weight; only that at some point claims of liability might well become sufficient to challenge one's claim to justifiability. A litigious society that still has "hair trigger" in its vocabulary is what it is, and the concerns (whether justifiable or not) the marketplace exhibits over the threat of potential liability exist.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; June 28th, 2012 at 02:45 PM.
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    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Watch some late night/early morning television and the lawyer ads claiming compensation for just about anything you've used in the past from prescription drugs to tennis shoes. Ask Dr Oz if it's unhealthy.
    Anyone know if a 3lb trigger pull to lite for a carry weapon from a liability standpoint?
    You've been here since May 2007? What have you been doing in that time? Have some of us been wasting our time in that period? Could any of us possibly be liable in any way for you to conjure up a question like this now?
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    LOL this should be good.

    I guess the main thing is whether the trigger is stock or not. If I remember correctly the factory trigger on an HK P7 series squeeze cocker is 2.5 pounds after the squeeze cocker is depressed.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    This stuff always turns into guessing, opinion and internet myth. Carry whatever the heck you want, just don't be a fool and carry a 2 lb trigger when you only make it to out to the range, let alone training, once a year. I prefer 4 to 6 pound triggers, depending on the feel. Last year I almost shot some tweaker breaking into my house at 3am. I had an M&P on me with the DCAEK kit and a pull weight of 4.5 pounds. I prepped on the draw as I was moving out of the way of his crowbar. At the very last fraction of a second possible, he broke off and ran the other way. I had to make an effort to not fire at that point. This comes down to one thing, training. It would have ended the same with any trigger that I was familiar with, though easier with a 12 pound revolver than a 2 pound race 1911.

    I work with cops regularly, my Dad was a DA in Los Angeles and I know a few here, so I've asked about this. They just laughed and said they've never heard of the trigger weight being measured in a valid self defense shooting. ONLY if there was an accidental discharge blamed on the gun….maybe.

    Use common sense… Oh, and maybe Google something like "charged in self defense shooting due to lighter trigger pull" and see what comes up.

    That was 3 minutes I'm never getting back, thanks guys!

    Has anyone brought up Ayoob yet? - Where's that "rolls eyes" emoticon!

    EDIT - Another thing… The issue with lighter triggers, when manufacturers say "not for defensive use" comes down to two things, neither of which involve the law. First, can you handle the trigger under stress and second is reliability. Many will fail to fire at some point, especially if the shooter installed it.

    For a while there I kept a full auto, suppressed MP5 in the bedroom (seriously. Now it's a 10.5" AR which I have at work as well). Unless it's 1984 and I'm outside the HK headquarters, please tell me how much trouble I could have gotten in using that in self defense… Again, "rolls eyes" emoticon, anyone?
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    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    This stuff always turns into guessing, opinion and internet myth. Carry whatever the heck you want, just don't be a fool and carry a 2 lb trigger when you only make it to out to the range, let alone training, once a year.
    Being able to avoid liability claims is guess-work. In the end, there's a reason the term "hair trigger" survives as, essentially, a denigration and something to be avoided. Has anyone been successfully convicted based solely on a light trigger's contribution to a shooting? Dunno, as I'm not in the legal case precedent research business.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  12. #12
    P95
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    Way to light for me. I like something around 5lbs.

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array RevolvingMag's Avatar
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    If it's stock, and you're familiar with it, I don't see any problem. I can't think of any gun where the trigger won't get lighter as you shoot it- the parts polish themselves and get smoother and smoother as you go along.

    Just think about what might happen if you were to install a 3lb trigger on a gun, then shoot it until you're comfortable and familiar with it. Maybe it's a 2.5lb trigger, or a 2lb trigger, and getting lighter.

    Personally, if I want a lighter trigger, I'll let the gun do it for me as I practice. Can't really get in any trouble for that, can you?
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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I don't know of a single one that has been. I wouldn't carry a hair trigger, but my Nighthawks were all between 3.5 and 4 and after thousands of rounds in shoot houses, I've never once thrown a round negligently. I'm not saying people should do carry light triggers, I'm saying to carry what works for you. If you train and run drills, you'll likely be just fine. If you shoot once in a blue moon with no drills or dry fire, then you probably should rethink carrying until you step up your training.

    There are videos of cops accidentally discharging their handguns. Had nothing to do with the trigger other than the fact their finger was on it when it should NOT be.

    I carry a Glock 17 now with the standard trigger. I'm carrying an M&P this month with the Apex trigger a couple pounds lighter than my glock. No issues at all. But, I do draw the line around 4.5 pounds on these guns. 3.5 and under is too light for my liking, but not because of ND's, more because it affects reset and break.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    I'd say it would depend on the gun. If your carrying a gun that is designed to be fired single action, 3 lb may be fine. If your talking a DAO or DA with a 3 lb trigger, it may be looked at a little harder. That being said, if it is a good shoot, it shouldn't matter. If it is a ND then yes, it will end up biting you in the butt.
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