Us and them...

This is a discussion on Us and them... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Bring It!!! Originally Posted by Bill MO So I see it as the time for a US vs THEM Force on Force Showing . Everyone ...

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  1. #166
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    Bring It!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    So I see it as the time for a US vs THEM Force on Force Showing. Everyone brings their own gear and airsoft. (But there are those who think you will only know for sure if we do it, for real, with real guns. So you will want to bring your EDC and ammo.) We find out who gets shot and who does not. We may even be able to get some TV network to air the whole event.

    THE TRAINED AGAINST THE UNTRAINED!!!!
    Who will win??????
    Coming Soon-----on your local TV station.

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  3. #167
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    I could tell you ,but,then I would have to.......,well you know.It's a Ninja code.
    Quote Originally Posted by P95 View Post
    All I have heard on this thread is if you don't run and gun....hide behind trees...roll in the dirt....reload while standing on your head....all the while juggling your five tactical knives and somehow shinning your special little flashlight....train 50 hours per week....dry fire your gun in the dark every night...you don't stand a chance with the big bad wolf. You can't depend on luck. The funny thing is, I posted 3 links to stories where a 15 year old, a doctor, and a 71 year old all took out the bad guy...which all the ninjas said could not happen...and none of the ninjas seem to want to comment..well maybe one. He said he read their minds and they had the worrier mindset..... Where are your ninja stories...real life stories that prove your ninja training was the determining factor in your success against the bg?
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  4. #168
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Really Bill? That sounds a little childish doesn't it....sorry.....LOL I gave up cowboys and indians a long time ago.
    Says this guy!


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    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

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  5. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    So I see it as the time for a US vs THEM Force on Force Showing. Everyone brings their own gear and airsoft. (But there are those who think you will only know for sure if we do it, for real, with real guns. So you will want to bring your EDC and ammo.) We find out who gets shot and who does not. We may even be able to get some TV network to air the whole event.

    THE TRAINED AGAINST THE UNTRAINED!!!!
    Who will win??????
    Coming Soon-----on your local TV station.
    Im in. Lets see how this pans out. Any takers on the untrained side???????

    Really Bill? That sounds a little childish doesn't it....sorry.....LOL I gave up cowboys and indians a long time ago.
    I was hoping you would come play with us.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  6. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockrocker View Post
    I could tell you ,but,then I would have to.......,well you know.It's a Ninja code.
    Ninja Please....
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    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  7. #171
    P95
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockrocker View Post
    I could tell you ,but,then I would have to.......,well you know.It's a Ninja code.
    See...my point exactly....you have no proof that anything you have said on this thread has any validity....none. Read the articles and weep. Then go play cowboy and indians.

  8. #172
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95 View Post
    Really Bill? That sounds a little childish doesn't it....sorry.....LOL I gave up cowboys and indians a long time ago.
    That my friend is not cowboys and indians, FOF is as close to gunfight as you can get without being in one. It will show how you will react to the real thing and if you will preform as you think you will and can.

    I find almost all who think they can find somewhere they can't, which is why you have to need to learn more. When on the range shooting paper or steel that does not shoot back you find you can always think you win. But when the target you are shooting shots back that is not always the case.

    If you think you are GOOD enough I say prove it. (At least to yourself) go up against a live breathing target and find out. I put that out there for all those who don't think training is needed and those who do. Do you really know what you think you know?
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    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  9. #173
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95 View Post
    See...my point exactly....you have no proof that anything you have said on this thread has any validity....none. Read the articles and weep. Then go play cowboy and indians.
    Have you no sense of humor? I think you would be less offended by posts if you put them into the intended context instead of applying your own! It seems you only deal in extremes.
    Spirit51 likes this.
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

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  10. #174
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    That my friend is not cowboys and indians, FOF is as close to gunfight as you can get without being in one. It will show how you will react to the real thing and if you will preform as you think you will and can.

    I find almost all who think they can find somewhere they can't, which is why you have to need to learn more. When on the range shooting paper or steel that does not shoot back you find you can always think you win. But when the target you are shooting shots back that is not always the case.

    If you think you are GOOD enough I say prove it. (At least to yourself) go up against a live breathing target and find out. I put that out there for all those who don't think training is needed and those who do. Do you really know what you think you know?
    One teensy, weensy problem with your FOF scenario. For almost all of us normal civilians, none of your combat/fighting scenarios will come to pass. Ever. Read the stories in the the NRA mag or anyplace you want. Almost all non-LEO firearm encounters are simply not "fights". They are almost all strong-arm robberies, other types of robberies, or home invasions.

    In a strong-arm robbery you are either threatened with a weapon you can overcome with your handgun (that's not a knife, THIS is a knife...), or someone has the drop on you and you comply - trained or not.

    Additionally, a large majority of the situations are handled by simply displaying the firearm. Again, you can say what you want, but that doesn't make it any less true.

    I carry a firearm to avoid a violent assualt, not to engage in one as a combatant. My surgeries mean my reflexes aren't what they once were. A friend of mine my age recently shot a meth tweaker who was camped out in a house he owned. He called the police, and when he went by the door, the guy lunged at him, so he shot him in the gut with a .380. My friend is a former Marine, but said wisely, "I don't engage in fights anymore."

    The tweaker survived. The cops came and dragged the druggie away. He healed up, and now lives across the street from the house where the shooting occurred. He had moved into the vacant house because his family threw him out for stealing from them. He's now back with them on pity parole......

    These are the more likely scenarios, not FOF combat.
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  11. #175
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    I started to carry in 06 I had been raise with guns and I could shoot and pistol good enough to get expert pistol while in the service. But I felt I was short on the knowledge to win in a situation against a BG. Like Glockman said in one of his post it is up to each of us to find what we need, I started looking found what I thought to right for my needs. I trained and then I practiced what I had learn till it became part me. (look at the first quote in my sig line) I then did FOF to find out if it really worked or not. I found I was still short on knowledge, so I searched more in the training world, found what I thought to be the answer, again trained and practiced then done FOF. In my search for knowledge I have done FOF 4 times. I now think I am close to where I want and need to be. (notice I said think) For one never know for sure about life, there is always a curve ball in the mix of life.

    In my search for knowledge I have found not only does one need skill in gun, hand and knife but also mind. Without the proper mindset one will come up short in the most trying time of life. Without the mind to give the body the direction to take you will find the tool in your hand useless in most cases. React that has become habit is the mind on auto pilot, without that reaction in a fight for your life you are doomed, if you have to think your way through you lost before you started.

    Just some thought of my process in/on CCing and what I see as important to continue to see my grandkids grow up
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  12. #176
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Mac, my FOF is not for combat training but is situations that any CCer can or could and that many have found themselves facing. If you think having a gun and the using or not using of it will save you from all you may face, (you my friend are coming up short, in my eyes, in lots of cases that are out there) A gun is not a save all do all tool.

    I hope you never have to face any trail of life and death in you life time the same as for me. But if you should I wish you luck because I think it will play a large role in the out come if you face situations that others have face that are in the news.
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    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  13. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    I started to carry in 06 I had been raise with guns and I could shoot and pistol good enough to get expert pistol while in the service. But I felt I was short on the knowledge to win in a situation against a BG. Like Glockman said in one of his post it is up to each of us to find what we need, I started looking found what I thought to right for my needs. I trained and then I practiced what I had learn till it became part me. (look at the first quote in my sig line) I then did FOF to find out if it really worked or not. I found I was still short on knowledge, so I searched more in the training world, found what I thought to be the answer, again trained and practiced then done FOF. In my search for knowledge I have done FOF 4 times. I now think I am close to where I want and need to be. (notice I said think) For one never know for sure about life, there is always a curve ball in the mix of life.

    In my search for knowledge I have found not only does one need skill in gun, hand and knife but also mind. Without the proper mindset one will come up short in the most trying time of life. Without the mind to give the body the direction to take you will find the tool in your hand useless in most cases. React that has become habit is the mind on auto pilot, without that reaction in a fight for your life you are doomed, if you have to think your way through you lost before you started.

    Just some thought of my process in/on CCing and what I see as important to continue to see my grandkids grow up
    So you, as a grandfather, need all kinds of FOF training, firearms skills, knife fighting skills, and "Eye of the Tiger" zen instruction in order to see your grandkids grow up? Without fight training you are "doomed"? Do you mean all those billions of people who don't follow your regimen won't see their grandkids grow up? Hey, I have four grandkids, and the time I spend at the gym and watching what I eat is far more likely to keep me living longer than your urban kung fu.

    You make some interesting points, then completely blow your argument by your nutty hyperbole. Your use of absolutes such as "doomed", "useless", "come up short", are simply concepts you are pulling out of - err - thin air. I know you're proud of your newfound gun prowess. However, your prescription for risk avoidance sounds more like a prescription for how to get in trouble.

    Ultimately, no matter your mad skillz in urban kung fu, age and loss of agility will impact your ability to "win" in a FOF fight more than any training can ever overcome. I know, that's not what Steven Segal says.....
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  14. #178
    P95
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    Have you no sense of humor? I think you would be less offended by posts if you put them into the intended context instead of applying your own! It seems you only deal in extremes.
    Ohhhh...ok...I see. You want to now say you were just kidding about all the training one needs to survive. You cannot produce any "facts" so...now lets crack jokes and divert attention from lack of proof of what you say has any application in ever day life. I have a sense of humor Eric.....I replied to your comment.

  15. #179
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    But I knew when I posted the FOF thing that it would get the same reply as the need for other training and practice I DON'T NEED IT I have my gun, which I can shoot and I will never have to use it anyway because my SA is so good they will never get close me. If they should be a situation of the BG actually being there the sight of my gun will make them run away because all the stories I read tell me so.

    So with that good luck to all and may God be with us all, because He is the one who really gets us through life how ever it may be.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  16. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    But I knew when I posted the FOF thing that it would get the same reply as the need for other training and practice I DON'T NEED IT I have my gun, which I can shoot and I will never have to use it anyway because my SA is so good they will never get close me. f they should be a situation of the BG actually being there the sight of my gun will make the run away because all the stories I tell me so.

    So with that good luck to all and may God be with us all, because He is the one who really gets us through life how ever it may be.
    I don't recall anyone posting that. Certainly not me. You are building strawman arguments against others here so you can knock them over. Your consistent use of hyperbole and sensationalism in your posts tells me you are trying a bit too hard to sell your ideas. Kinda like the USCCA selling their "insurance."

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