Us and them...

This is a discussion on Us and them... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by rammerjammer Some take self defense and training too far. A member here who admitted to wiping his butt with his weak side ...

Page 3 of 23 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 331
Like Tree389Likes

Thread: Us and them...

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    2,248
    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    Some take self defense and training too far. A member here who admitted to wiping his butt with his weak side hand for defensive purposes comes to mind.


    I know you are not the one that said it...but I just got to ask....what was his point in doing this. Muscle control? Manual dexterity? I am not kidding. What purpose did he give. Thanks in advance for answering this. If I don't get a explanation or reason (whatever the guy's was)...it will bother me all night and the hubby will give me this look when he comes back and I ask him.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #32
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Northeast Alabama
    Posts
    716
    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    I don't think that the fact that somebody doesn't train 24/7/365, in and of itself, should be taken as some indicator that they are incompetent with a firearm, a knife or their hands.
    I don't think Harry or anyone else is advocating constant training.

    I've been around guns all my life. I'm good at shooting really tight groups on stationary targets.

    One day I realized that my adversary, if he ever shows up, won't be a stationary cardboard silhouette, but will most likely be in my face, it will likely be dark/less-than-perfect weather conditions, one or both players will likely be moving, and other variables.

    With that in mind, I took the S.I. Extreme Close-Range and 0-5Ft Gunfighting courses, as these address the kind of threat most think they will face. And both were very eye-opening classes.

    I also don't carry a 5-shot pocket pistol any more because I've learned the limitations of small guns and this method of carry.

    I currently train at extended distances as well, because I have no idea what my fight will entail when it comes. And realistically, neither do you.

    Like Harry, I tend to disregard statistics because they only tell me what has happened to others in their gunfights and are absolutely irrelevant to the fight I may be in later tonight or next week (or even never). It will be my own.

    Sure, people with absolutely no training prevail every day. But I don't want to be 'that guy'. I want to be the best I can be to protect myself and family. And I find training to be stimulating, educational and fun.

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    887
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Not really sure what you think you are saying by that first sentence. But the bravado BS is just that. I have a DD214 to back up my dedication to this country and my countrymen.

    It is highly possible that you did not understand or grasp the measure of my statement. So, with that possibility I will resist incurring infractions.

    But, it's easy to speak of heroism and facing down a madman on a public forum. But I can tell you from similar experience it comes with a warm sensation running down your leg in one form or the other.
    So if the situation causes me considerable terror, and you believe that to be cowardly, then I'm guilty, as I have learned it well.
    I was in no way questioning your dedication to our country. I know that you served, and I know that you're a LEO. I'm also fairly certain that I know your reasons for both of those. The same reason that someone would stop a gunman from slaughtering people. It's not Bravado BS. It's a respect for life and liberty and the desire to defend it at whatever cost.

    Maybe I should have worded that first sentence a little differently, but it was merely intended to compare that to what you do every day. While it may not be to the same extent, it IS the same mindset.
    ericb327 likes this.

  5. #34
    P95
    P95 is offline
    Ex Member Array P95's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    304
    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Are Bad guys different where you live. Is someone hell bent on killing you in KY any different then one that wants to kill me in MI? Or is your neighborhood exempt from crime?
    Actually its a peaceful neighborhood except for a few crackheads. It's definitely not South side of Chicago....yes...it definitely depends on where you live. I don't walk out the door everyday with five extra mags, and two or three knives paranoid that everyone I meet is a potential bad guy who is out to kill me.

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    7,931
    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey2011 View Post
    I was in no way questioning your dedication to our country. I know that you served, and I know that you're a LEO. I'm also fairly certain that I know your reasons for both of those. The same reason that someone would stop a gunman from slaughtering people. It's not Bravado BS. It's a respect for life and liberty and the desire to defend it at whatever cost.

    Maybe I should have worded that first sentence a little differently, but it was merely intended to compare that to what you do every day. While it may not be to the same extent, it IS the same mindset.
    Rodger that. My duty as a Marine, and LEO, differ very much from the guy or gal out here just living life, but want to defend themselves from the proverbial " wolf at the door".
    Also, many of my posts on here are more in dealing with needs and concerns of everyday folks. I am one of you. I really don't identify myself too much with my professional life. I started out that way intentionally because there is a difference.

    The first priority either way, is to do the things that give you the greatest opportunity to go home everyday. If by some chance you can help someone along the way, well, that's just gravy. But you have to remember those in your life who count on you being there.
    Spirit51, tclance and BillK like this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  7. #36
    P95
    P95 is offline
    Ex Member Array P95's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    304
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post

    I really think that too many people get caught up in the " evil, badguys" and such on these forums sometimes and get a little out there.
    I am not directing this at the OP or any responding member here, just my thoughts on the entire " gotta train" thing.

    Get a good quality piece, learn how to use and maintain it, and enjoy your life.
    Well put glockman10mm.

  8. #37
    P95
    P95 is offline
    Ex Member Array P95's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    304
    Quote Originally Posted by PilotAlso View Post
    Harryball, congrats on choosing to "train". Good for you. Why is it that your personal choice should somehow be the standard EVERYONE should choose?

    Personally, I find it absurd that people spend so much time and money getting "training" for ninja, assault team scenarios.

    I can shoot. I know my weapon. I read about real life situations and attempt to make up my own mind on MY course of action.

    I don't trust so-called or self appointed "EXPERTS". Yes I might listen but I'm still going to evaluate what is said based on my own thoughts.

    Let me add this. My opinion is that driving is one of the most dangerous things any of us do. Do all you "TRAINING" proponents also take defensive driving courses? You as a driver have an obligation to be the BEST DRIVER you can be. After all, your family's well being might hinge on how you handle a driving emergency. Wouldn't it be much more cost effective to educate yourself and train for the most dangerous situations you will MOST LIKELY be placed in?

    One other thing to consider when taking numerous "training courses". How would it look to the general public should you ever actually have to shoot someone in self defense? The media would most certainly plaster the front pages with the details of your fascination with shooting someone.

    Think people think!
    Another well thought out post.

  9. #38
    P95
    P95 is offline
    Ex Member Array P95's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    304
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaquero 45 View Post
    I'm retired LE, and let me tell you, if you shoot twice a year at static targets, from a variety of positions, then you are taking your training as serious as most police officers. That's about all the training that most police officers get. Being a "gun guy," I would go out to the PD range on Friday afternoon for "open shoot," which means they buy the ammo and I shoot until my trigger finger gets sore. But I was lucky to see 4 or 5 other officers there, out of a department of over 1600 officers.

    If someone is the type of person who sees a bad guy behind every tree, and they want to spend hours and hours rolling around in the dirt and practicing reloads, failure drills, weapon transitioning, etc.....hey, more power to them. Does the average civilian need to do that? Probably not. A Glock or a revolver does not require much in the way of training to use effectively.

    I shoot a couple of times per month now, if that. I don't shoot slow fire, I empty my gun in a fast and determined manner, and make good hits. Just like I might have to do while defending my life. I feel like I am reasonably well prepared to handle just about anything that comes my way in my tame civilian travels. Mindset means more than training, as long as you have a basic level of competence with your firearm. After mindset comes circumstance, which is out of our control. The best trained special forces operator can lose to a half literate, poorly trained dirt farmer with an AK, depending on the circumstances. I think some people obsess about survival so much, that they never really learn how to live.
    Agreed totally

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    887
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Rodger that. My duty as a Marine, and LEO, differ very much from the guy or gal out here just living life, but want to defend themselves from the proverbial " wolf at the door".
    Also, many of my posts on here are more in dealing with needs and concerns of everyday folks. I am one of you. I really don't identify myself too much with my professional life. I started out that way intentionally because there is a difference.

    The first priority either way, is to do the things that give you the greatest opportunity to go home everyday. If by some chance you can help someone along the way, well, that's just gravy. But you have to remember those in your life who count on you being there.
    I'll agree with that. I'm simply saying that what fuels you, fuels a lot of people. You just took it one step further, and a good number of us are thankful for those like you.
    Spirit51 likes this.

  11. #40
    New Member Array calthegoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    But, it's easy to speak of heroism and facing down a madman on a public forum. But I can tell you from similar experience it comes with a warm sensation running down your leg in one form or the other.
    So if the situation causes me considerable terror, and you believe that to be cowardly, then I'm guilty, as I have learned it well.
    Brother,
    My DD214 (23 years active) gave me the same experience and the results are similar. Thank you for your service and thank you for your continued service. Duck and cover teaches a man many things that others may never truly understand.

    Train to live but don't forget to live!

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    7,931
    Quote Originally Posted by calthegoose View Post
    Brother,
    My DD214 (23 years active) gave me the same experience and the results are similar. Thank you for your service and thank you for your continued service. Duck and cover teaches a man many things that others may never truly understand.

    Train to live but don't forget to live!
    Thank you! My eight is nothing to your time.
    Yeah, complete terror, the kind that makes your legs feel like they are giving out, and gets caught in your throat so bad you can't swallow.

    I think about that sometimes. Then I feel stupid when I think of the things the guys suffered in Vietnam, Korea, and other wars. It has lasting effects in the way you see everything doesn't it?
    mwhartman likes this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  13. #42
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bellevue, Ky/Cincinatti
    Posts
    1,408
    Someone please start an Acronym thread! I get lost sometimes.
    For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. (Sun Tzu) The Art of War

    https://www.facebook.com/ninja312


    My food and product review blog
    http://trualitybarandgrille.wordpress.com/

  14. #43
    Member Array framedcraig1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Mapleton, Ut
    Posts
    146
    Okay...i had a very interesting conversation with my thirteen year old grandson on a trip to Durango, Co. this week. He asked me straight up in the motel room why I felt that was neccessary to carry weapon at all times. I told him that some of us in the general public feel an obligation to protect our families, ourselves, and other innocents from threats that most people rarely give a passing thought to. He asked me if I ever really anticipated using the guns, and i said no...but how would I feel if I had the capability and the means to protect those I love, and those who couldn't defend themselves...and had left the pistols home "just this one time"?. He said.."Okay.. I think I understand now". Do any of you NOT understand how much this conversation meant to me?! +1.
    tcox4freedom likes this.
    All men are equal...CC makes us equal-er.

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    2,503
    While I agree 100% with the OP's comments, it is like saying everyone who drives a car should complete an HPDE course. Never gonna happen.

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    West Allis WI
    Posts
    2,761
    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    I have heard that civilians are better trained and shoot more frequently than most rank and file LE. I can't back that up as I have only heard this. I do agree with your post completely.
    What you heard came from an FBI report...

    "Among other things, the data reveal that most would-be cop killers:
    --show signs of being armed that officers miss;
    --have more experience using deadly force in "street combat" than their intended victims;
    --practice with firearms more often and shoot more accurately;"....
    Force Science News
    Caertaker likes this.
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

Page 3 of 23 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

=generation z

,

hyperbole in us and them

,
is there hyperbole in us and them
,

powered by mybb arts & entertainment

,
powered by mybb computer art is not art
,
powered by mybb family safety
,
powered by mybb funny things to think
,

powered by mybb handgun training in missouri

,

powered by mybb healing arts

,
powered by mybb nd game and fish
,

powered by mybb sun tzu art of war

,

powered by mybb top art schools in the us

Click on a term to search for related topics.