Us and them...

This is a discussion on Us and them... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; It all comes down to perception. Nothing more. For myself, I prefer to spend my time enjoying life, relaxing with my family, fishing, hunting and ...

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  1. #76
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    It all comes down to perception. Nothing more. For myself, I prefer to spend my time enjoying life, relaxing with my family, fishing, hunting and such.

    It seems like for those who live in such a bad place, such as bad neighborhoods, and such would be better served to spend their money to exist in a safer, happier place, than spending money constantly on learning to combat their areas of habitat.
    The unseen enemies of hypertension and anxiety will get you even if you kill all the bad guys.
    AZJD1968 likes this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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  3. #77
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    Well P95 again I guess your emotions have been offended, so lets try this. "Where in the heck did you come up with this?".

    It is nice to see we have a moderator in training though but there is nothing in that rule regarding language.

    Mods if I broke a rule by using the word hell, I apologize please send me my warning.

    Max and Chad. In regards to criminals maybe I should clarify a bit. Bubba Tyrone Rubenstein the crackhead will steal from his neighbor, mother, kids or church these guys are a dime a dozen. When I refer to a criminal I tend to start at a little higher level.

    A car thief who makes his living stealing and selling cars is not going to steal a 74 Pinto from his neighbor even on a bad day. He will go to a quiet, safe residential neighborhood or nice safe grocery store near that neighborhood to steal a Range Rover.
    A man who makes his living stealing and selling jewelry is not going to break in and steal his neighbors Walmart necklace her kids gave to her for valentines day. He will go to the safe, quiet, high end neighborhood and search out the right house and take the 3 carat tennis bracelet or grandmothers wedding ring that is the type criminal I was referring to.
    I have seen crooks steal Brownings and leave Remingtons, leave a diamond ring and take a Rolex or my favorite steal a Ducati 999, a fantastic motorcycle, and leave a vintage original 1948 Panhead sitting beside it, there is no accounting for taste.

    In regards to the 50% number that was used. You have to realize that the neighborhood may have changed over the years from being upper/middle class to something else. There may be a house on the historical books with a rather well off family living there with others in the neighborhood with less than stellar reputations. That house may be the magnet for that street.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  4. #78
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    It all comes down to perception. Nothing more. For myself, I prefer to spend my time enjoying life, relaxing with my family, fishing, hunting and such.

    It seems like for those who live in such a bad place, such as bad neighborhoods, and such would be better served to spend their money to exist in a safer, happier place, than spending money constantly on learning to combat their areas of habitat.
    The unseen enemies of hypertension and anxiety will get you even if you kill all the bad guys.
    Truer words were never spoken. The BEST single thing you can do to protect your family from violence is to live in a "safe", upscale neighborhood. The most significant factors in whether or not you are statistically likely to die from vioence are ALL demographic.

    If you're a young person who wants to live safely, working hard for a good CAREER (notice I didn't say "job") that allows you to live and raise a family in a "nice" area is the absolute best security you can provide.

    Please don't make me post all those stupid caveats that ANYTHING can happen to ANYONE in ANY PLACE, and that there are always exceptions and anecdotal stories that are outliers.

  5. #79
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    I am deadly serious about self-defense for me and my family. I just don't expend 98% of my self-defense activity time with handgun proficiency in unrealistic conditions.
    I wouldn't, and don't, expend 98% of my self-defense time with a firearm regardless of what it or I am doing.

    I know there are guys who won't ever leave the country unless they can carry, but I like to ttravel places where a firearm is not possible (even within the USA). In these places it's going to be a knife, an impact weapon, or hand to hand that's going to get me through the moment. I'm likely going to need a modicum of physical conditioning to pull any of that off. Even better, if I can physically be such that I don't get selected to begin with, even better.
    "People who take an Internet handle of a great warrior, are usually the first to go fetal when crunch time comes." - Me

  6. #80
    P95
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    It all comes down to perception. Nothing more. For myself, I prefer to spend my time enjoying life, relaxing with my family, fishing, hunting and such.

    It seems like for those who live in such a bad place, such as bad neighborhoods, and such would be better served to spend their money to exist in a safer, happier place, than spending money constantly on learning to combat their areas of habitat.
    The unseen enemies of hypertension and anxiety will get you even if you kill all the bad guys.
    I like the way you think glockman10mm.

  7. #81
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95 View Post
    I don't think forum rules allows such language...2. While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks or purposeless inflammatory posts or PMs. Trolling, flaming, and personal attacks are strictly prohibited. You are welcome to disagree with opinions other than your own, but flaming other members will not be allowed. If you can't figure out how to compose a post without it being confrontational or a personal attack on someone, simply bite your lip and don't post it.
    Are you freakin kiddin me?!!!!
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  8. #82
    P95
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Well P95 again I guess your emotions have been offended, so lets try this. "Where in the heck did you come up with this?".

    It is nice to see we have a moderator in training though but there is nothing in that rule regarding language.

    Mods if I broke a rule by using the word hell, I apologize please send me my warning.

    Max and Chad. In regards to criminals maybe I should clarify a bit. Bubba Tyrone Rubenstein the crackhead will steal from his neighbor, mother, kids or church these guys are a dime a dozen. When I refer to a criminal I tend to start at a little higher level.

    A car thief who makes his living stealing and selling cars is not going to steal a 74 Pinto from his neighbor even on a bad day. He will go to a quiet, safe residential neighborhood or nice safe grocery store near that neighborhood to steal a Range Rover.
    A man who makes his living stealing and selling jewelry is not going to break in and steal his neighbors Walmart necklace her kids gave to her for valentines day. He will go to the safe, quiet, high end neighborhood and search out the right house and take the 3 carat tennis bracelet or grandmothers wedding ring that is the type criminal I was referring to.
    I have seen crooks steal Brownings and leave Remingtons, leave a diamond ring and take a Rolex or my favorite steal a Ducati 999, a fantastic motorcycle, and leave a vintage original 1948 Panhead sitting beside it, there is no accounting for taste.

    In regards to the 50% number that was used. You have to realize that the neighborhood may have changed over the years from being upper/middle class to something else. There may be a house on the historical books with a rather well off family living there with others in the neighborhood with less than stellar reputations. That house may be the magnet for that street.
    Tacman you haven't offended me.....I find you quiet unrealistic and entertaining. I try to imagine what it's like living in your fantasy world. Please help me understand....for now...I need to run a few errands. I will check my parameter...send out the dogs...call the neighbors before I make a run for the truck. Can't be to safe.

  9. #83
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    I don't either ,I spend alot of my self defense time in HTH-ECQ,you know,gun might go down,knife might get dull,and all those criminals might decide not to follow statistics and come to my middle class n-hood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    I wouldn't, and don't, expend 98% of my self-defense time with a firearm regardless of what it or I am doing.

    I know there are guys who won't ever leave the country unless they can carry, but I like to ttravel places where a firearm is not possible (even within the USA). In these places it's going to be a knife, an impact weapon, or hand to hand that's going to get me through the moment. I'm likely going to need a modicum of physical conditioning to pull any of that off. Even better, if I can physically be such that I don't get selected to begin with, even better.

  10. #84
    Member Array PilotAlso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Well P95 again I guess your emotions have been offended, so lets try this. "Where in the heck did you come up with this?".

    It is nice to see we have a moderator in training though but there is nothing in that rule regarding language.

    Mods if I broke a rule by using the word hell, I apologize please send me my warning.

    Max and Chad. In regards to criminals maybe I should clarify a bit. Bubba Tyrone Rubenstein the crackhead will steal from his neighbor, mother, kids or church these guys are a dime a dozen. When I refer to a criminal I tend to start at a little higher level.

    A car thief who makes his living stealing and selling cars is not going to steal a 74 Pinto from his neighbor even on a bad day. He will go to a quiet, safe residential neighborhood or nice safe grocery store near that neighborhood to steal a Range Rover.
    A man who makes his living stealing and selling jewelry is not going to break in and steal his neighbors Walmart necklace her kids gave to her for valentines day. He will go to the safe, quiet, high end neighborhood and search out the right house and take the 3 carat tennis bracelet or grandmothers wedding ring that is the type criminal I was referring to.
    I have seen crooks steal Brownings and leave Remingtons, leave a diamond ring and take a Rolex or my favorite steal a Ducati 999, a fantastic motorcycle, and leave a vintage original 1948 Panhead sitting beside it, there is no accounting for taste.

    In regards to the 50% number that was used. You have to realize that the neighborhood may have changed over the years from being upper/middle class to something else. There may be a house on the historical books with a rather well off family living there with others in the neighborhood with less than stellar reputations. That house may be the magnet for that street.
    My common sense tells me that professional thieves would rather just steal stuff and leave. Assaulting someone would attract too much attention and not make money.

    THINK

  11. #85
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95 View Post
    Tacman you haven't offended me.....I find you quiet unrealistic and entertaining. I try to imagine what it's like living in your fantasy world. Please help me understand....for now...I need to run a few errands. I will check my parameter...send out the dogs...call the neighbors before I make a run for the truck. Can't be to safe.
    Didn't this violate the rules you posted??
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

  12. #86
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    ...

    Max and Chad. In regards to criminals maybe I should clarify a bit. Bubba Tyrone Rubenstein the crackhead will steal from his neighbor, mother, kids or church these guys are a dime a dozen. When I refer to a criminal I tend to start at a little higher level.

    A car thief who makes his living stealing and selling cars is not going to steal a 74 Pinto from his neighbor even on a bad day. He will go to a quiet, safe residential neighborhood or nice safe grocery store near that neighborhood to steal a Range Rover.
    A man who makes his living stealing and selling jewelry is not going to break in and steal his neighbors Walmart necklace her kids gave to her for valentines day. He will go to the safe, quiet, high end neighborhood and search out the right house and take the 3 carat tennis bracelet or grandmothers wedding ring that is the type criminal I was referring to.
    I have seen crooks steal Brownings and leave Remingtons, leave a diamond ring and take a Rolex or my favorite steal a Ducati 999, a fantastic motorcycle, and leave a vintage original 1948 Panhead sitting beside it, there is no accounting for taste.

    In regards to the 50% number that was used. You have to realize that the neighborhood may have changed over the years from being upper/middle class to something else. There may be a house on the historical books with a rather well off family living there with others in the neighborhood with less than stellar reputations. That house may be the magnet for that street.
    Here, we begin to see eye to eye... There are different levels of criminal... I would venture to say that a good majority (95%) of them are thugs. 5% may actually be intelligent, professional criminals. Some of that 5% are probably corporate criminals, and the rest are surely politicians.

    Amongst the 95%, there are, say 5% who are truly sociopaths who have no compunction about killing, maiming, or doing whatever base and horrible things are necessary to get one thing. That which they want. Whatever it is. Most of them (not all, but most) are lone wolves... They act alone, because they want what they want and don't tend to like to share... They act alone because they can't trust anyone else to do the work to get what they want. They are not lazy but smart, sometimes very very smart... They use people up to get what they want... And since they are smart... they may even have a following... an entourage if you will...groupies. Easily used groupies...

    In fact... going off on a tangent here... The population of the US that has a permit to carry a weapon, is much like the armed forces of our country...

    You have desk jockey pencil pushers. They may have a gun.. .but rarely, if ever, use it... they've got a permit... they don't even carry...

    You have the basic grunt... a foot soldier... infantry... he has his permit... he carries a gun, he's had basic training... and he's going off to war... but he's behind the lines... relatively safe... occasionally, he ventures off base... maybe he gets back... maybe he's nabbed and beheaded. (most often he does get back... none the worse for wear... )

    You have the basic grunts whose job it is to go "out there" and engage the enemy... They have some better training... they are a bit more tactically proficient... they go out en masse and sometimes engage the enemy, sometimes they don't see any bogeys.

    You have special forces.... these are the elite.. the sociopathic level killers who thrive on the adrenaline. These are man hunters. They have a level of training that will enable them to defeat any foe... or perceived foe... They could, if they were of a mind, chew up and spit out any in the ranks below them.... Training? Oh they've had a LOT of training... and practice, too... they get hurt in practice... with injuries that might take the grunt completely out of the game.... and kill the desk jockey...

    But if you look at "the bell curve" statistically.... the percentages of any group are about the same.... not every soldier can be a SEAL... not every soldier is a desk jockey. There's a whole lot in the middle... and that's okay....

    In the terms of the population that has a permit... that is an army that does...."Take a bite out of crime."

    And you need the guys in the middle.. and the guys at the ends.... to make one more or less cohesive unit.... with a common enemy. Because even that SEAL can't get the things he needs to do his job without the guy at the desk pushin' the pencil to get his approval... And the guys in the middle winnow the herd (of enemies) so that the SEAL can focus on the HARD targets. And the guys below the SEAL, like what the SEAL does because with the HARD targets out of the way... The enemy as a whole is less organized and willing to fight... it makes their job a little easier.

    But statistics say... that in any group... there will be a majority that sits right in the belly of that curve.... a few of them at one end will go the extra distance with more training etc.... and a few of them at the other end will have a permit they never use....
    It could be worse.
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
    John Adams
    "A gun is kind of like a parachute. If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again".

  13. #87
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    P95 glad you are entertained, I like to make people happy and anytime you want some real entertainment come on over and visit me.

    In case you have not noticed I don't live in a fantasy world I live and work in the war zones of the world providing security for the DoD and DoS where my personal skill level and proficiency with my weapons keeps myself and others alive but I don't expect you to even come close to understanding that since you think the "Warrior Mindset" is such a scary thing.
    My fantasy world consists of about coming home and seeing my kids, Lory, riding the Harleys and actually doing some training and shooting for myself instead of teaching others. I happen to like to train and to teach whether it is working with a SWAT team, Lory to ride a Harley, the kids how to shoot a .22 or going to a school myself to learn something new or practice old skills. If you don't want to train and improve don't as I said it is your life not mine.

    What you stated as sarcasm I do every damn day. I check my parameter before leaving the bunker that I live in, check in with the Explosive Detector Dogs at the gate to make sure they have not had any hits, and check in with my coworkers to let them know I am out and about in case of one of the many 57mm rockets fired at us happens to hit my vehicle.

    So continue to live in your world and I will live in mine and who knows maybe someday our paths will cross.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  14. #88
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    A person in Tacmans arena must have that mindset. Training for him is not something to do, it is part of the job, and weapons are part of the trade.

    It takes years to decompress, and relax. Some never do, depending on their personal experiences and psychological make up.
    The funny thing about the eventual coming down from this necessary mindset, is how insignificant the things of this world/ country are to you. You never really get excited about bad guys and boogie men again.

    I must say that it's very nice to finally be on this side.

    But don't dog Tacman's ideology and thinking. It is very necessary for his survival at this point in his life. I understand it, I'm just not at that place anymore.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  15. #89
    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95 View Post
    Tacman you haven't offended me.....I find you quiet unrealistic and entertaining. I try to imagine what it's like living in your fantasy world. Please help me understand....for now...I need to run a few errands. I will check my parameter...send out the dogs...call the neighbors before I make a run for the truck. Can't be to safe.
    Dude his fantasy world is in IRAQ. Think about that, just for a minute. Your pithy attitude towards him is rather disgusting..

  16. #90
    New Member Array OneAz2Risk's Avatar
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    Get some training from a Police Professional not some wanna be who got a certificate from a mail order website. Knowing how to shoot under pressure (drills) ,reload and operate a flash light while shooting your weapon are key skills. When panic sets in skills diminish even in professional gun operators. If you don't train at all your skills will be "0" and you will stand frozen with fear and indecisiveness. Your reaction time will pass and the BG will have the advantage.
    "Watch yer top knot."

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