Heads Up! : YOU'RE AT RISK If You Don't Have an UMBRELLA LIABILTY INSURANCE POLCIY:

This is a discussion on Heads Up! : YOU'RE AT RISK If You Don't Have an UMBRELLA LIABILTY INSURANCE POLCIY: within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Let's take two different scenarios: Scenario # 1 : I DON'T HAVE an Umbrella Liability Policy and: I have to shoot someone in SD. The ...

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Thread: Heads Up! : YOU'RE AT RISK If You Don't Have an UMBRELLA LIABILTY INSURANCE POLCIY:

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Heads Up! : YOU'RE AT RISK If You Don't Have an UMBRELLA LIABILTY INSURANCE POLCIY:

    Let's take two different scenarios:

    Scenario # 1 :

    I DON'T HAVE an Umbrella Liability Policy and: I have to shoot someone in SD. The authorities rule it's a case of Self-Defense, and no charges are filed. BUT, the family of the person I shot, for whatever the reasons, believes my actions have needlessly caused the death or permanent disability of their family member. They sue me for $1.5 Million Dollars. They win the suit and are awarded $1.25 Million dollars. Also, now that the suit is over, legal fees are due.

    Result: I owe $1.25 Million Dollars + $250,000 to my attorneys.

    Scenario #2 : I DO HAVE an Umbrella Liability Policy - for $2 Million dollars. The same events take place as above. I lose the suit, family is awarded $1.2 Million, Legal Fees Due of $250 Grand are due, etc., etc.

    Result: I owe $0.00 to the family and $0.00 to the attorneys who represented me.

    Big difference huh? I do actually have an Umbrella policy for $2 million. How much money is the premium I pay that would give me the 2nd Scenario (I owe nothing) and not the first (I owe $2.5 Million + $250,000)? I pay $110 for a year's premium for $2 million . If I only had a Million in Liability Insurance it would cost me under $100 for a year.

    Now, an Umbrella Policy requires you have Auto (I believe) with the same company, I also have Homeowners. The 2 Million liability insurance is available for suits that win more than the liability coverage I have for Auto or Home. BUT, it also is available for any Liability cases, even if they have nothing to do with Auto and Home Ins. If someone sues me for libel or slander I'm covered.

    AND, AS I MADE SURE WITH MY NEW COMPANY AS I DID WITH MY OLD: I am covered for liability for SD actions - as long as they are legal - anywhere, in any state, in any city - including when firearms are used for the SD action.

    Now you may have to pay more than $110 a year. Your own situation determines premiums, as does the Insurance Company itself and their rates. But most do not go higher than $300 or so I believe. You may also need to buy more Auto or Home liability in the policy you presently have to qualify for the "Umbrella". I had to raise the amount of my Auto liability in that policy. But it was only $30 more a year - and then I was eligible for the "Umbrella".

    I think anyone who walks around with a loaded gun and could use it in a crisis - is nuts to not have this coverage, or at least to check it out with their own Insurance Company.

    Anyway: just my opinion and experience: FYI

    PS: I HAVE NO CONNECTION WITH THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY AND NEVER HAD ANY.
    Last edited by walleye; July 7th, 2012 at 02:29 AM.

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  3. #2
    Member Array jonesey0930's Avatar
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    Never really thought about that being a possibility until now. Thanks for bringing it up. Now I need to call my insurance company.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    In Tx and a few other States if you have a legal SD shooting,you cannot be sued by the victim or any family members.But in states that could be a possibility,or even having that much for a personal injury accident on your property for an insignificant amount wouldn't be a bad idea since the USA is one of the most litigious countries in the world
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    Ex Member Array Yankeejib's Avatar
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    Insurance for CIVIL liability suit in Self Defense Injury or Death

    While a justified shooting might save you from civil liability from the dead BG's estate, consider the event of a bystander catching a stray, or property damage.
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    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    In Tx and a few other States if you have a legal SD shooting,you cannot be sued by the victim or any family members.But in states that could be a possibility,or even having that much for a personal injury accident on your property for an insignificant amount wouldn't be a bad idea since the USA is one of the most litigious countries in the world
    There is your answer in a nutshell. Thank you dualmighty. In SC, as dual has said, if it is a good shoot there are no civil consequences regardless of how much they portray the BG as a "good boy". Any state that does not have civil protection from a good shoot is probably run by the trial lawyers. It makes no sense to survive the scrutiny of law enforcement and then be liable to the cretin's family. If it is a bad shoot IMO the insurance will probably not cover you or at least you will have a very very hard time having them pay out monies because of your incompetence and irresponsibility on a shoot. Just remember the magic words, at least in SC----"presumption by a reasonable person of imminent death or great bodily injury"---those are the call letters for you to present and discharge your firearm. No insurance in the world is going to protect you if you have not followed that precursor to your actions.

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    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    ALL CAPS = SHOUTING. I don't pay much attention to people who feel the need to shout at me.

    Secondly, if you introduce any topic with "You're crazy if you don't...." I'm even less inclined to care.

    Oh, you're selling me insurance? ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz.

    YOU'RE CRAZY IF YOU THINK I'M GOING TO CARE WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY.
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    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankeejib View Post
    Insurance for CIVIL liability suit in Self Defense Injury or Death

    While a justified shooting might save you from civil liability from the dead BG's estate, consider the event of a bystander catching a stray, or property damage.
    I don't know if a bystander getting hit is not illegal and a criminal manner. That's first to consider.

    This may have been a court decision or simply that Ins. Companies are now following different procedures: but I asked the first company I had an Umbrella policy with the practice you bring up: "a shooting in SD being intentional so it's not covered."

    Here's what was told me: The intentional act would be taking a walk, or going to the store. Someone trying to rob you or shoot you is an ACCIDENT that happened to you out of nowhere along the way in which you take steps to save yourself. So, you are covered by Liability Ins.

    Ask your own Insurance people this, but this is two companies in a row I specifically asked if actions of SD were covered including those with a firearm. The answer from my new rep (my agent) said even: "That's what it's for - things that happen outside - away from home, away from cars."
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    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    ALL CAPS = SHOUTING. I don't pay much attention to people who feel the need to shout at me.

    Secondly, if you introduce any topic with "You're crazy if you don't...." I'm even less inclined to care.

    Oh, you're selling me insurance? ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz.

    YOU'RE CRAZY IF YOU THINK I'M GOING TO CARE WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY.
    FINE BY ME

    Oh, by the way, your house is on fire

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    Must have been paying attention,time to read,time to comment.
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    ALL CAPS = SHOUTING. I don't pay much attention to people who feel the need to shout at me.

    Secondly, if you introduce any topic with "You're crazy if you don't...." I'm even less inclined to care.

    Oh, you're selling me insurance? ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz.

    YOU'RE CRAZY IF YOU THINK I'M GOING TO CARE WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY.
    bigdog44 likes this.

  11. #10
    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    There is your answer in a nutshell. Thank you dualmighty. In SC, as dual has said, if it is a good shoot there are no civil consequences regardless of how much they portray the BG as a "good boy". Any state that does not have civil protection from a good shoot is probably run by the trial lawyers. It makes no sense to survive the scrutiny of law enforcement and then be liable to the cretin's family. If it is a bad shoot IMO the insurance will probably not cover you or at least you will have a very very hard time having them pay out monies because of your incompetence and irresponsibility on a shoot. Just remember the magic words, at least in SC----"presumption by a reasonable person of imminent death or great bodily injury"---those are the call letters for you to present and discharge your firearm. No insurance in the world is going to protect you if you have not followed that precursor to your actions.
    Right, in the same way a fire in your house is not covered if your acts of arson caused it, if you murdered somebody you're not covered. If it's a bad shooting it won't be OK with the police and DA to begin with in fact.

    Best thing is to contact your own Ins Company. It seems from my experiences with 2 different companies that things have changed as far as now being covered for legal SD acts. Perhaps there was a seminal court case that caused this? Or maybe some states - and mine is one - have regulations about Insurance coverage in this area. Don't know. But the Company you're with will have the best info for you - (or perhaps the State Insurance Office where you live)

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    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    You are crazy if you think a shyster insurance company is really going to support you.

    They will do anything in their power to not have to pay a premium!
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  13. #12
    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rammerjammer View Post
    You are crazy if you think a shyster insurance company is really going to support you.

    They will do anything in their power to not have to pay a premium!
    I know mine will give me a VERY GOOD defense - because it's THEIR money at risk. If the case is lost so is their money.
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    I got my umbrella policy years ago. Two million bucks worth of liability for not very much at all.
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    Member Array tomtsr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    I don't know if a bystander getting hit is not illegal and a criminal manner. That's first to consider.
    I am not a lawyer so take this for what you want. I am an instructor and have checked with private practice attorneys, district attorneys, and LEO in Colorado, so I can communicate this to my students. Shooting a bystander is criminal negligence and will land you in prison. There is no such thing as justifiably shooting the wrong person.

    As for insurance, get all you feel you need. While a PLUP (Personal liability umbrella policy) adds additional coverage beyond homeowners and auto, it provide nothing for illegal activity. They may provide a defense, but if you loose, they walk.
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    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    In Tx and a few other States if you have a legal SD shooting,you cannot be sued by the victim or any family members.But in states that could be a possibility,or even having that much for a personal injury accident on your property for an insignificant amount wouldn't be a bad idea since the USA is one of the most litigious countries in the world
    I mentioned it here before that I got a million dollars’ worth for 4.00 more a year under my homeowners policy. in Texas you can't be sued for a legal shooting from the perp but YOU can be sued by everyone else that has damages from the shooting... damage to car, houses, other people...etc.
    walleye likes this.

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