What to do when LEO doesn't know concealed carry law - Page 2

What to do when LEO doesn't know concealed carry law

This is a discussion on What to do when LEO doesn't know concealed carry law within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Maybe the state would see fit to educate all police officers with taxpayer dollars. Maybe they would see fit that each dollar out of ten ...

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Thread: What to do when LEO doesn't know concealed carry law

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Maybe the state would see fit to educate all police officers with taxpayer dollars. Maybe they would see fit that each dollar out of ten from CCW permit fees go toward such education.
    Thing is.......each time the vehicle laws change in your state.......do you get a notice in the mail notifying you of the changes that may very well get you arrested or a ticket? Maybe the design of the 'system' is to keep everyone in the dark so life will be more interesting?
    Went to gun show this weekend (while I should have been sleeping due to work schedule). Eyeballed an AR15 upper with grenade launcher. Got talking with the vendor and we discussed the possibilities of me being questioned or arrested upon leaving the premises with such a terrible thing. Came to the conclusion that (vendor says) cops don't know gun laws......to which I replied that most cops don't know state vehicle laws either. Yeah...we had a chuckle for a moment over that one......but sad part is.......it's true for the most part. Just when I thought the system was designed to keep us in the dark and at risk.....I figure that law enforcement is on the other end of the stick......but the thing is....they got guns and authority to back up their ignorance. Everything else is sorted out at the station or before the judge within the next week or so. Law enforcement folks get to go home every night even if they made bad decisions that day. Plenty of law abiding citizens get detained daily from life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness while acting legally.
    Don't get me wrong guys in LE.......it's just one of these days I hope we can help each other out instead of feeling that we're on different sides. Ignorance sucks, and it's mainly a one way street here lately. Authority is always right or so it's ingrained into most sound minds (no influences of drugs). We can all be partners in the new America. No need to be spit upon when you're keeping the peace....no need in getting handcuffed when you're abiding by the law. No citizen wants to be harassed, no law enforcement officer wants to be disrespected.
    The stories I could tell about quittin' time at the county jail and how many off duty officers run that stop sign at the top of the hill. Nobody's listening now. But I always see. Laws apply to all of us equally.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MNgunner View Post
    They ought not to have. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

    We're (law-abiding citizens) are not guinea pigs for newbie LEO's training.

    As to the OP, you did well.

    Some of the sites I follow regarding continuous police harassment and unlawful behavior are the PAFOA (PA) and Georgia Carry. It happens every day despite the fact that the cops have to attend a seminar of OC carrying being legal in PA. They don't care. Dirt nap and numerous pointed guns to the head with foul language such as "I'm f-king going to shoot you if you move" from the highly professional heroes. In none of the 'contacts' the civilian broke the law; the cops ... well ... they're the cops - protect and serve.

    It does not much matter what the law is, it's the cops who decide whether you go to jail and are changed with phony crimes.

    Law Student Puts Cop In His Place After Being Unlawfully Stopped For Carrying A Gun In Maine - YouTube
    I don't think it's fair to lump all police in the same general group. I understand that most of them hardly ever even run across someone carrying with a CPL/CCW permit. Expecting them to know all the laws concerning every state in the union is asking a lot.

    I do see quite a few post (some are probably links to previously posted incidents) concerning the police in Philidelphia because it seems there in either a lack of training or an additude that flows down from the top there.

    I've been very lucky and have yet to be stopped by police since I got my CPL, but from what I have heard most Michigan police are supportive of the law. It's like the officer that taught part of my CPL class explained, in ANY given occupation, whether it's lawyer, cop, doctor or fast food worker there is 10 percent of the people that should not have that job. The best you can hope for is to avoid that 10 percent.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    I've often wondered what would happen if an out of state LEO, or even one from a different county, checked my permit. It was printed on the back of the Sheriff's business card, and then poorly hand laminated by his secretary. Yeah, he's that bad. lol.

    Sounds like you handled it well, and the officer probably learned a little something.

  4. #19
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    RamRod & Mngunner - I agree with ya'll. It'd be off-topic, but I could give examples where I was harassed for my 'biker' appearance at times. If anyone had a right to have a chip on his shoulder towards LE, it could be me. Yet, I'm occasionally accused of being a LEO-lover here on this forum.

    For me it boils down to the understanding that this ol' world just isn't fair, and isn't going to be until the story-line of my personal faith comes to fruition. Until then, we gotta get along and a big part of that is understanding that we're all flawed and allow some grace for our fellow person (which includes LEO's).

    I'm voting to re-elect our local Sheriff, I'm voting out my local county council representative, I'm voting out a state senator, and of course, there's little wonder how I will vote on POTUS in November. 'Fix what we can, and come up with coping strategies for the stuff that we can't fix yet. Besides, once we can forgive the flaws of others, there's less to be angry about, which allows me to be a happier person.
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  5. #20
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    Well done, and we all ought to realize LEO's have a lot of homework and study to stay current with their own jurisdiction's laws, let alone others.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I think that some people just have a chip on their shoulders when it comes to LE. But you will always have that.

    Whec, you did good. He will probably go back and ask someone with more experience and learn something. With laws constantly changing, and new ones being added daily, it is very difficult to know everything.
    HR 214 is a good example. Hard to figure out where you stand with that one in California and New Jersey.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  7. #22
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    No one should be expected to know all the laws, especially those of other states. You did good.

    BTW, when did PA change their non-resident permit? Mine, which is now expired, had my picture and home address on it.
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  8. #23
    Member Array catt101's Avatar
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    I carry a binder in my truck that has a copy of the states (basic) laws off of the handgun.us site. I also have a page that shows what state has what reciprocity with any other state (also handgunlaw.us site). If I am going to be in a particular state, I make sure it is in the binder.
    I reprint these as they change and make sure the date is clearly highlighted.

    I also have the LegalHeat app on my smartphone.

    None of these methods may swing a crabby LEOs opinion, but it might help.
    Rock and Glock likes this.

  9. #24
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    I was in a sticky situation the other night, but came out clean. If this experience helps anyone out, then this post was worth the time for me to type it;

    On the evening of July 3rd, I was stopped at a drunk check-point, where they were checking everybody's drivers license. This was up by Lake Hartwell which spans the GA/SC state line, and I wasn't sure which state I was in at the moment and the LEO's cars were parked up ahead in the dark, so I couldn't make out their jurisdiction. When the officer asked for my license, I told him that I was required by SC state law to reveal that I was carrying, and permitted to do so, at which point he also asked for my permit. As I handed him my SC license, SC permit & PA non-resident permit, he ominously said "we have a problem, GA doesn't recognize SC permits and we're in the state of GA on this particular stretch of road". I said "no problem, the PA non-resident reciprocates with and is honored by GA, which is why I carry it". He said we still have a problem - there is no place of residence on the PA permit and it looked like a fake to him (it is just a piece of paper, and even has hand-writing on it).

    I realize at this point, he's about to cuff and stuff me, right there in front of my family sitting in the car with me. I assured him that it was real, and that the reason that there was not an address was because it was a non-resident permit. Residence is not required. I then continued to pleasantly chat him up, mentioning that New Hampshire also offered the same sort of permit that many South Carolinians use in order to carry in GA, but the PA was cheaper so I went with it. I then continued with the example that SC does require residence, as does GA as far as I was aware. He said "Oh, I just figured that all states required residence". He then stared at my permits a little longer, I shut up, he then smiled, handed them back and told me to have a good night.

    Now granted, he still could have thrown me in the pokey out of sheer ignorance, ruined my 4th, and I'd have to lawyer my way out. However, my point is that cooler heads generally prevail. I didn't lecture him on 2A rights, nor suggest that he didn't know the law. I just kept it pleasant and conversational/informational like two friends talking about little-known trivia.

    Anyway, this approach saved me a lot of headache. I learned a long time ago, that sometimes you have to chose between be 'right' and being 'successful'.
    I don't know if you saw my reply. It turns out you don't need a permit in GA to carry in your vehicle. Just thought I would re-post.
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  10. #25
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    Nice WHEC. And even though he may not have known all of the reciprocities, he probably thought that it had to be true because no one just makes this stuff up. LOL Good job, glad it went well.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericb327 View Post
    I don't know if you saw my reply. It turns out you don't need a permit in GA to carry in your vehicle. Just thought I would re-post.
    'Got it - good point. I was not aware of that. I live near the GA state line, so I have to be licensed to carry there all the time anyway.

    Even so, since the deputy didn't know that either, I still stood a good chance of sitting in the back of his car that night. I'm fairly certain that if I would have pulled attitude, things would not have gone well for me. The underlying theme in my post is in response to some indignant threads running regarding power-tripping LEO's. The world just isn't fair, and that sometimes you're better off using a little finesse vs. brute-force.

    Thanks again for the clarification.
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  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array ericb327's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    'Got it - good point. I was not aware of that. I live near the GA state line, so I have to be licensed to carry there all the time anyway.

    Even so, since the deputy didn't know that either, I still stood a good chance of sitting in the back of his car that night. I'm fairly certain that if I would have pulled attitude, things would not have gone well for me. The underlying theme in my post is in response to some indignant threads running regarding power-tripping LEO's. The world just isn't fair, and that sometimes you're better off using a little finesse vs. brute-force.

    Thanks again for the clarification.
    Good deal!
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  13. #28
    Member Array BWillis57's Avatar
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    Nicely handled.

  14. #29
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    Excellent outcome and well done. I'm glad it all worked out in your favor..
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  15. #30
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    I'm sorry, but until the cops commence behaving like ordinary people do, dropping the obnoxiousness, arrogance and "I can kill you any time I want", they don't get any respect from me. There used to be a time when it was great to see a cop, and I said hello to the officer. Now the mere sight of a cruiser in the mirror makes me turn the next right. Those times will never return.
    Did someone beat you up and take your lunch money in school? I mean really, what type of traumatic incident did you go thru that made you so sour?
    Last edited by Rock and Glock; July 11th, 2012 at 12:24 AM.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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