Are You Too Stupid To Conceal Carry? - Page 6

Are You Too Stupid To Conceal Carry?

This is a discussion on Are You Too Stupid To Conceal Carry? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by FUZZ I feel that a minimum training standard should absolutely be mandatory, in every state. and Originally Posted by Lotus222 I think ...

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Thread: Are You Too Stupid To Conceal Carry?

  1. #76
    VIP Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUZZ View Post
    I feel that a minimum training standard should absolutely be mandatory, in every state.
    and

    Quote Originally Posted by Lotus222 View Post
    I think it is up to the states to decide how much training is necessary and proper for a person to wield a handgun on their person.
    I respectfully disagree.

    As I said at comment #45

    No IQ, literacy, proficient etc test to vote.

    No IQ, literacy, proficient etc test needed to carry!

    Come on Constitutional carry.
    As I have said in a number of earlier threads, I'm on the side of "There should be no prior restraints on ANY constitutional Right -- including the RKBA and to defend yourself with a firearm. NO constitutionally protected rights should even require training or proficiency test to exercise -- IMHO.

    I do agree that training should be encouraged. I think a prudent person should train the same way that I think a prudent person should be knowledgeable of politics and the background of candidates before voting. I think a prudent person should train the same way that I think a prudent person should be knowledgeable the facts before writing an newspaper LTE, story or editorial.

    However, I don't think it is the role of the state to test us or dictate the training required to vote, write, or carry.

    Apply all these pro-required-training or pro-required-proficiency test to any other constitutionally protected rights and it becomes clear why they don't fly.

    Government designed/required training or a government designed/required proficiency-test to exercise religion? Yeah, Right!!

    Government designed/required training or government designed/required proficiency-test to exercise the right of (free???) speech? Yeah, Right!!

    Government designed/required training or government designed/required proficiency-test to exercise the right of a (free???) press? Yeah, Right!!

    Etc.

    It is not the government's job to keep us from being stupid or uninformed about our religious choices or political choices. It is not the government's job keep us from showing how stupid or uninformed we might be in our speech or writing. The potential for harm to others from mistakes in the exercise of those rights exist (and IMHO exceeds) the potential for harm in 2A.

    All the arguments for restrictions on carry (e.g., “may issue”, OKs from the chief LEO, prior training, proficiency testing, checking more frequently to see if a person is still fit to carry a weapon) are exactly the same as those that the hoplophobic use for restricting carry in the crazy patchwork quilt of hurdles to be cleared before exercising and to continue the exercise of our RKBA.

    However, there is no evidence that there is any higher rate of gun related problems in those States with little or no such draconian nonsense, as there is in those States with draconian restrictions on the 2A.
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    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro


  2. #77
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    I respectfully disagree.
    <snip>
    Well said.

    Even if a training requirement is completely "reasonable", it can be used to restrict RKBA at any time by simply making it more expensive.

    Here in WA, you can carry for the $56 permit and the cost of your pistol. (I think the $56 is too much)

    What's it cost in say... Texas? Any Texans care to post their experience of permit fees + required training? Any other residents from states who have training requirements want to contribute the same info?
    Jollymann likes this.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Any other residents from states who have training requirements want to contribute the same info?
    Virginia:

    Five year permit up to $50. A few counties (including mine) are less. The court shall charge a fee of $10.00 for the processing of an application or issuing of a permit. Local law enforcement agencies may charge a fee not to exceed $35.00 to cover the cost of conducting an investigation on. The State Police may charge a fee not to exceed $5.00. The total amount of the charges may not exceed $50.00,

    Proof that the applicant has demonstrated competence with a handgun and the applicant may demonstrate such competence by one of the following, but no applicant shall be required to submit to any additional demonstration of competence:
    1. Completing any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries or a similar agency of another state (often available free);
    2. Completing any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;
    3. Completing any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law-enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or the Department of Criminal Justice Services (a few LEO offices offered them free, at one time. Not sure if any still do.)
    4. Completing any law-enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;
    5. Presenting evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or current military service or proof of an honorable discharge from any branch of the armed services;
    6. Obtaining or previously having held a license to carry a firearm in this Commonwealth or a locality thereof, unless such license has been revoked for cause;
    7. Completing any firearms training or safety course or class, including an electronic, video, or on-line course, conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association-certified firearms instructor;
    8. Completing any governmental police agency firearms training course and qualifying to carry a firearm in the course of normal police duties; or
    9. Completing any other firearms training which the court deems adequate.

    Note: no hands-on training or proficiency-test required. Long-gun training qualifies.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  4. #79
    Member Array 1bearz's Avatar
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    I don't know about some of the people being too stupid to carry, but I have met a few that are way too stupid to vote!
    DaveH and BurgerBoy like this.

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