September 17th, 2006 10:24 PM
How does the NICS check differ from the Check to get your Handgun Permit?
How does the NICS check differ from the Check to get your Handgun Permit?
Federal law generally requires that licensed firearms dealers conduct a background check on all prospective firearms purchasers to ensure that such persons are not prohibited from buying or possessing a firearm. This background check requirement and the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (“NICS”) were enacted through the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, pursuant to Public Law 103-159, and codified at 18 U.S.C. § 921 et seq. Federal law defines a number of classes of prohibited purchasers (including felons, fugitives, persons adjudicated as “mental defectives” or those committed to mental institutions), and leaves to the states the power to determine additional classes. (For a complete list of federally prohibited purchasers, click here.)
Under the Brady Act, states have the option of serving as a “state point of contact” and conducting their own background checks using NICS and state informational records and databases, or having the checks performed by the FBI using only NICS. Federal law does not require that private sellers (persons other than firearms dealers) conduct background checks on prospective purchasers.
In Indiana, all firearms transfers by licensed dealers are processed directly through either the Indiana State Police (handguns) or the FBI (long guns; i.e., rifles and shotguns), which agency enforces the federal purchaser prohibitions referenced above. Bureau of Justice Statistics Survey of State Procedures Related to Firearm Sales, Midyear 2004 (August 2005). In addition, Indiana has adopted other classes of prohibited persons, and incorporated some of the federal prohibitions as state offenses.
Indiana Code Annotated § 35-47-2.5-4, as amended by 2006 Ind. House Enrolled Act No. 1176 prohibits a dealer from transferring a handgun to a person until the dealer has "contacted NICS...to request a background check," and "received authorization from NICS to transfer the handgun to the prospective purchaser."
Under section 35-47-2-7(b), a person may not transfer a handgun to an individual who the person has reasonable cause to believe:
Has been convicted of a felony or adjudicated a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult, if the person seeking to obtain ownership or possession of the handgun is less than 23 years of age;
Is a drug abuser;
Is an alcohol abuser; or
Is mentally incompetent.
Any person convicted of domestic battery under section 35-42-2-1.3, or any person convicted of committing, attempting to commit, or conspiring to commit a serious violent felony, is prohibited from possessing a firearm. Sections 35-47-4-5, 35-47-4-6. For other provisions related to domestic violence and firearms, see sections 34-26-5-3 and 34-26-5-9.
Persons convicted of domestic battery under section 35-42-2-1.3 may not possess or carry a handgun under any circumstances, unless the person's right to possess a firearm has been restored under sections 3-7-13-5 or 33-28-4-8. Section 35-47-2-1(b).
Firearms transfers by private sellers (non-firearms dealers) are not subject to background checks in Indiana, although federal and state purchaser prohibitions still apply. However, section 35-47-2-8 specifically notes that the handgun sales regulations under Chapter 35-47-2 (i.e., the prohibited purchaser prohibitions) apply equally to an occasional sale, trade, or transfer between individual persons and to retail transactions between dealers and individual persons. See the Indiana Private/Secondary Sales section.
September 17th, 2006 11:11 PM
Here in Colorado, I recently inquired through the Colorado Bureau of investigation the very thing you ask. The CBI serves as the POC for both the instant check and CCW prmits. The CBI contacts the Insta-Check system. IF there are any hits,, they then go to the specific state database to get specifics and dispositions, to detemine purchaser eligibilty. They also check nation wide mental health records. For CCW, the local sheriff sends fingerprints to FBI for basically the same check, with the fingerprings checking identity, in case of aliases. If a hit is found, they then access the states database where the hit is found, for info, and disposition. After receiving FBI report, the local sheriff than investigates any local info, i.e.or person of interest files, to see if sheriffs have visited you for getting in your neighbors face for example, or repeated visits by sheriff for lewd or violence issues. If sheriff find verifiable and recorded evidence you could be a threat, he can still deny you.
September 17th, 2006 11:33 PM
As a firearms dealer, I must comply with the federal NICS on any sale or transfer, long gun or hand gun. They're not supposed to keep the info in their database, and I don't know the criteria they use for their answer.
The permit to carry is a state thing, and some states are more exhaustive in their background checks. Some require annual checks during their 5 yr permits. Ask the clerks who do the checks.
Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
-Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95
September 18th, 2006 07:01 AM
Your permit is done through your state-level law enforcement agency with a localized background check (feds don't have access to state systems, generally) and your fingerprints are then handed off to the FBI to do a full criminal history check for all 50 states and the territories. Your fingerprints are absolute proof of who you are and if you've never submitted prints on an FBI card, it creates your FBI record file.
The NICS is done exclusively by the FBI. They run a full criminal history check for all the 50 states plus the territories, but using the information that you put on your BATF form rather than relying on your fingerprints. If you've never submitted fingerprints on an FBI card then you have no FBI record file, it's only a check.
The permit is more thorough as your fingerprints are checked against anything possible along with your information. While you may have never been convicted of a crime, if your fingerprints are attached to a "wanted" record for a crime it will match while the regular check won't because there is no name attached to the record. Also, because you will have an FBI record created, your prints are now checked against any new additions to the "wanted" records for future crimes.
Hope that helps.
Edit! Additionally, if someone that is prohibited from receiving a gun attempts to buy one, a message is sent by NICS through a national law enforcement "messaging system" that all law enforcement agencies have that will notify anyone within that state that the person is attempting to purchase a firearm and where they currently are. For those familiar with how the system works, this will only happen for those persons that receive the outright "denied" response rather than "delay... delay... delay... delayed" response. The "delay" response means that there is usually too many returned records that are too close to that person's information and needs to be checked closely and cannot be resolved "instantly".
Last edited by soundwave; September 18th, 2006 at 07:10 AM.
Reason: additional information
September 18th, 2006 07:40 AM
Good info here,thanks guys.
Have heard rumors(?) here in Fla. of a BG attempting to purchase a firearm,and 15 minutes later the LEO's arrive at the gunshop to question the subject.
Is this/could this be true. Certinly hope so. Or would this be "too" easy. Kinda like,"you've just won the lottery.Come on down to claim your prize". -------
September 18th, 2006 07:44 AM
September 18th, 2006 08:22 AM
Yes, as I said in my edited portion of my post. A message goes out from NICS to all law enforcement in that state with the name, description and location of the BG that tries to purchase a firearm. It will also give his current address that he used on the form sometimes. We don't get a lot of them, but they do come in every once and awhile.
Originally Posted by RSSZ
The answer that I gave also usually cannot be given by a LEO. Most LEOs do not receive these messages. In most departments only the people that enter in "wanted" or "stolen" records or people in dispatch get these messages.
September 18th, 2006 08:33 PM
Every State has Differences.
My state ( PA ) requires no permit to purchase.
NO Fingerprints are required for a CCL ( carry license).
And even after you HAVE a CCL - you still do the NICS
everytime you buy a gun.
-SIG , it's What's for Dinner-
know your rights!
"If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
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