What happened to Minnesota Nice?

What happened to Minnesota Nice?

This is a discussion on What happened to Minnesota Nice? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Although I reccommend AGAINST open carry for a host of reasons, here in MN it is perfectly legal with a Carry Permit. Nevertheless, here is ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 34

Thread: What happened to Minnesota Nice?

  1. #1
    VIP Member
    Array gunthorp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    home office
    Posts
    2,355

    What happened to Minnesota Nice?

    Although I reccommend AGAINST open carry for a host of reasons, here in MN it is perfectly legal with a Carry Permit. Nevertheless, here is an email I just received from a former student.
    .................................................. ......................................

    Hello Gardner,

    I took your class in April and I just wanted to alert you to an incident that I had with Duluth Police Officers. I work for a private investigation company and do private security work. I'm still in shock at how I was treated by officers and how they actually repeatedly violated my civil rights and committed multiple criminal offenses against myself.
    Last edited by gunthorp; September 19th, 2006 at 12:17 AM.
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

    Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
    ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
    -Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95


  2. #2
    Lead Moderator
    Array rocky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    16,149
    If this is the true and unbiased facts of the situation, I feel the PD did wrong him by the harassment. As for pointing a gun at him, that was for officer safety , most likely. While it may be legal to open carry, sometimes it is much smarter to conceal.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array Black Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    1,337
    If this is true you need to talk to a U.S. Attorney and file a complaint for "Violation of civil rights under color of law". The FBI will do the investigation. The incident number is a great thing to have and that is where they will start. They will verify the contact by this number and the dispatch tapes. Good luck and keep an eye open. Cops this "dirty" are apted to do anything in retaliation. Also notify the Sheriff where you got the permit so he/she knows what to expect.

  4. #4
    VIP Member
    Array Thumper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    7,319
    As already stated, "Oppression Under The Color of Authority" is a VERY serious matter and NO law enforcement officer ever wants to be charged with that!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  5. #5
    Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    45,319

    I Would Push This To The Limit...

    if what you say is true. You may, worse scenario, at least prevent further 'insult and injury'...

    ret
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array JimmyC4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Minnesnowta
    Posts
    2,034
    "Minnesota Nice" is alive and well!

    If this is accurate, it looks like at least two cops on a power trip.

    It's easy to say to pursue it, but lawyers don't work for free. On the other side of the equation, the cops have a whole bureaucracy that is well-tuned in the art of protecting their errant ways.

    At risk of offending the well-informed LEOs that frequent this forum, I must say that generally (in this story and many others) LEOs are not well-informed on the critical issue of open carry in their jurisdiction. It's not rocket science, and for me is an elementary set of the law for them to have a good handle on before they go out on the street.

    The whole "man with a gun" BS is way overplayed...once LEOs know that this is a law-abiding citizen carrying in a lawful manner they must simply drive away, pure and simple. No detention, no threats, no lectures. I, for one, am very weary of the LEO "...I want to go home at the end of my shift..." reasoning for jacking up law-abiding citizens. We all want to go home safely, and when open carry is legal, don't endanger the person who is legally carrying openly!!!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array palmgopher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    tennessee
    Posts
    722
    as for the gun being pointed at him.....i agree for officer safety. the cuffs again for officer safety. once complained about being too tight the situation goes down hill from there. They deffinately had a problem and that is the kind of thing that gives police officers a bad name. They need to leave their personal agenda at home and deal with the LAW. He was legal and they should have let him go once they found that no law was broken. As for the breathalizer.....i think BS and would DEFFINATELY file a formal complaint to the department about it. The letter is nice but for the most part unless formal complaint is made they will try to hide it and brush it away. Talk directly to the Sheriff about this incident. This way he knows the POLITICAL problems this could cause. He will make sure things get taken care of from there. It is after all his job if this gets out because chances are he will not get reelected again if the people found out that this kind of stuff was happening and he knew about it.

    this is just my suggestion =O) as for lawsuit......your call i wont get into that one but if you dont think that it was handled right....then if you got the pockets for it or a lawyer that will work on what you will get out of it.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array PatrioticRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Rigby, Idaho
    Posts
    5,142
    Ever thought about having the letter printed in the local news paper?
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    USN 78-82/USAF 82-93 Medically Retired
    Desert Shield/Desert Storm
    DAV Life Member
    NRA Life Member

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array palmgopher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    tennessee
    Posts
    722
    THAT would give the department a HUGE whack across the knuckles and FORCE them to do something......not a bad idea! make sure to talk to sheriff first as not to make an enemy.

  10. #10
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    15,041
    If this is an accurate account of what transpired, then I would reccomend hiring a laywer immediatley. Any and all transaction to the dept.would be though my attorney.

    An officer must deal with a "traffic stop" in accordance with the circumstances that are presented. Walking up to someone and stopping them at gunpoint simply because they are wearing a holstered weapon is above and beyond reasonable action. If an officer was truely concerned for their safety, the gun should be drawn and held downward by their side...there in no reason to point the gun at the person as circumstance did not dictate it. This appears to be use of excessive force.

    There is so much wrong with this thread that it is hard to argue it.

    There was NO probable cause to adminster a PBT.
    There was no reason to "revoke" said permit or even mention it.
    An officer should not interject his opinion of what the law says or what they think it should say.
    They refused to give their names.
    Any officer that would "fabricate" a charge should not be an officer and one that tells someone that he would just to get something to stick is an idiot.
    There is a possibilty of illegal detainment here, as once it was found that the permit was valid, there was no longer reason for detainment.

    Im not an expert on such things, but my take on it as a Part Time Deputy is not good.

    It is my guess that a good laywer will tear the two cops apart and hand their azzes to them. Unfortunatley threatening to sue the dept. is the only way to recieve prompt attention and insure that the matter is reflected in the records of said cops. Cases like this make it very easy for lawyers to win. The only way to prevent the same thing from happening again is to make it very painful for the city and the dept. and the only way to do that is to hit them where they care...in the pocketbook.

    Black Nights reccomendation of a U.S. Attorney is a good one. Sometimes that is what it takes to get the ball rolling.

    I hate to hear of crap like this happening.

    At risk of offending the well-informed LEOs that frequent this forum, I must say that generally (in this story and many others) LEOs are not well-informed on the critical issue of open carry in their jurisdiction.
    That is a fact, but it no way does it absolve any officer for false arrest, excessive use of force, intimidation,slander or any thing else. We've all heard that ignorance of the law is no excuse...and the applies more so to LEO's. It is the responsibility of an arresting officer to know the law. Actions that are contrary to that law are not only irresponsible but serve to erode public confidence. It sounds that this particular Police Dept. may have some issues that need to be addressed in a head on manner.
    Last edited by HotGuns; September 18th, 2006 at 03:27 PM. Reason: spelling or lack of...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array MNBurl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    3,019
    Talk to a lawyer before responding more on the net!

    What loosers 440 and 400 are!
    MNBurl

    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.

  12. #12
    Lead Moderator
    Array rstickle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Laurel, MD
    Posts
    22,053
    Sounds like you have a couple of officers with a problem, and if accurate should be pursued.
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  13. #13
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    35,749
    Well, I admire any citizen that wants to fight the courtroom fight & go through the legal hassle and the forthcoming BS & expense to open carry.
    More power & good luck to him.
    I'll let you younger guys fight the good "open carry" fight.
    Way back when I did my small, part to help prompt PA. go Shall Issue.
    Maybe if I thought open carry was in any way positive and beneficial to armed self~defensive carry I would be more willing to share the pain on this incident.
    Hope everything works out well for the dude though.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Array enigmaone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    englewood fl
    Posts
    1,055
    While not condoning the actions of the officers involved, It should be
    remembered that Law Enforcement like every other Employer has the same problem they ALL have to recruit from the human race.Aint NONE of us perfect.
    Last edited by enigmaone; September 18th, 2006 at 11:20 AM. Reason: Grammar& Content
    quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

  15. #15
    Member Array bobfiegel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Kissimmee FL
    Posts
    38
    Assuming facts are as stated, to include 400's statement of possibly fabricating evidence in the future regarding your permit, it seems to me the writer would be a great defense witness for anyone charged in the future based solely on the accusations of 400 and 440. Maybe not exactly what a DA wants to have around, especially once the criminal defense community gets wind of it?

    I've got to admit though, that it's another example of no matter how right, correct, legal, et al, one may be, open carry can tend be an invitation to trouble, which is truly unfortunate, but real. If Florida had OC I'd still carry concealed just to avoid such incidents. Again, unfortunate and wrong, but real.

    Hope we'll see an update or two on this one. Particularly interested to hear what the other two officers do. Will they all hide behind the wall?

    Bob

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Greetings fom Minnesota
    By Sonic82 in forum New Members Introduce Yourself
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: February 16th, 2011, 11:04 AM
  2. New guy from Minnesota
    By Bandit2001 in forum New Members Introduce Yourself
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: February 3rd, 2010, 07:48 AM
  3. It happened in a nice area
    By Hopyard in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: November 10th, 2008, 11:33 PM
  4. New Guy From Minnesota.
    By devilmutt in forum New Members Introduce Yourself
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: September 11th, 2006, 10:51 PM
  5. Hello from Minnesota
    By DDanielson in forum New Members Introduce Yourself
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: June 28th, 2006, 05:35 PM

Search tags for this page

noise code enforement duluth mn

Click on a term to search for related topics.