Jump out the bathroom window...
This is a discussion on Shooting over the Saints within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hi guys..I'm new here...the urge to lookup CCW regulations has taken over out of the blue for some reason, and the more I look, the ...
Hi guys..I'm new here...the urge to lookup CCW regulations has taken over out of the blue for some reason, and the more I look, the more prudent it seems to do so; the information here at Combat is outstanding
See below..if you were there, what would you have done? From the Times-Picayune.
Man shot in fight over Saints
Game led to dispute in Metairie sports bar
Monday, September 18, 2006
From staff reports
A Belle Chasse man was shot in a Metairie sports bar and restaurant on Sunday after an argument about the New Orleans Saints and Green Bay Packers football game, the Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Office said.
Jason Campagna, 34, of Belle Chasse was undergoing surgery at the Charity Hospital trauma unit at Elmwood Medical Center, sheriff's spokesman Col. John Fortunato said.
Patrick Sears, 25, of 521 Papworth Ave., Metairie, was booked with attempted second-degree murder.
Fortunato said Campagna and friends were watching the game at Lager's International Ale House, 3501 Veterans Memorial Blvd., at Severn Avenue. An argument developed between Campagna's group and Sears and two people who were with Sears, Fortunato said.
The discussion turned physical at some point, and Sears' group was asked to leave. Fortunato said Sears returned about 3:40 p.m., after the game was over, and fired one shot into the ceiling with a .22-caliber revolver. He then shot Campagna once in the stomach, Fortunato said.
Sears drove away in a blue 2001 Ford F150 truck but was stopped in the 3400 block of Edenborn Avenue by sheriff's officer Melissa Marion, who was heading to the scene, Fortunato said.
He said Sears' father and brother were in the truck. Officers seized a .22-caliber revolver in the truck. The gun was believed to have been used in the shooting, Fortunato said.
Later, the Sheriff's Office booked Sears' father, Rickey J. Sears, 57, and his brother, Rickey Sears, 26, with being principals to attempted second-degree murder. They were believed to also live at the Papworth Avenue address, Fortunato said.
Fortunato said the many people in Lager's who witnessed the argument said it was over the Saints game.
Jump out the bathroom window...
I don't think I would have been ab le to do anything because here in AZ we can't carry in restaurants.... And even if we could... A crowded restaurant like that? I'm not sure I would draw unless the guy was coming for me/my own. Too much chance of hitting someone or something else on accident.
I agree...I would have done the same. I think I would have been ready, though, if the guy started shooting at random...but who knows...from what I read, deadly force should only be used for home invasions, carjackings, or isolated attempts of people trying to rob you or kill you..in a public place, no way..unless they are coming after you personally.
What would a LEO do if he was there, say off duty...
Unless I was the intended victim, I would have been sure to notice as many details as possible to be a good witness. Most likely I would have left when the first sign of trouble started and would have missed it anyway.
Same thing I did at an IHOP in/near Detroit when a disgruntled employee came in with a gun...grab your drink(coffee in my case) and seek cover behind/under table
I was a midnight shift restaurant manager fot a couple of years and theses are my observations, if you try to run, you will bunch in the door, giving the BG a bigger target area, if your in the open your wrong, if your close to the emergency exit get out, too many people (paniced people) to get a clear shot.
Basicly seek cover and fire ONLY if you are positive of your backdrop and have a clean lane of fire.
Personally, it would not happen to me. For one I am not a sports fan, so that kind of venue is not my scene. Another thing, I don't drink in public. I only drink at home or at a friends home ($2.50 for a domestic bottle is too much, and I only drink micros and imports).
Take the sports bar part out of the equation, and it is a likely scenario that could happen. In those cases, I try to be as close to an exit as I can that still has the comfort that my family deserves. The radar is always "on". It drives my wife nuts at times that we will be out to dinner somewhere and I will only look at her on occassion while we talk. At home is a different story.
I am in a constant state of scan when I am out in public. I use my surrounding to gain the best advantage for me. If that means sitting next to a window rather than a wall, I do. I prefer a door, but a well placed chair will go through a window providing me and mine a convienient way out.
Since I live in one of those states that prohibits firearms in an establishment that serves alcohol for consumption on the premesis, I wouldn't have my handgun on me, so flight or cover/concealment is my only option.
What I would do? I'd start a little further back.
1) Don't get into shouting matches with other people in public. If your friends usually do so, find better friends. If you are an angry person, or hang out with angry people, sooner or later trouble will find you.
2) If you/your friends get into a shouting match with another group of people, and the people leave while angry -- you leave, too, as soon as the other group is gone. Be somewhere else. Don't sit around and wait for the disgruntled people to come back (yeah, this is hindsight, but read the papers awhile and you'll see how often a violent individual comes back to finish an earlier squabble).
3) Unless you are with a friend whom you trust utterly to watch the door for you, don't sit with your back to the door in public. Always be aware of activity around the door. Not as paranoid as it sounds; it's just a subset of people-watching which is a perfectly normal activity. If you didn't leave after arguing with angry people, you'd certainly better be watching the door. Have a plan (dependent on geometry of the space) for what you would do if an attacker came through the door): run out back door, roll under table, jump up & tackle? Think through options, then relax and enjoy your dinner while you people watch.
4) If you ignored 1), 2), and 3), and if you didn't leave at the first sign of trouble, then and only then would you face a shoot/no shoot decision. Choice is entirely dependent on circumstances & angles. If I were in fear for my life or the lives of other innocents, I would shoot at an armed attacker provided it was reasonably safe to do so and did not endanger known innocents (people who came in with the BG do not count as known innocents; they count as safe backstops...). Not knowing where the attacker stood, where bystanders stood, who was around/behind attacker, or anything else ... I don't know whether I would have shot in this situation if I were present.
My website: Cornered Cat
Nothing here as i couldnt have been packing in the bar
If someone gets in a shootout-in a bar-over a football game, or any sport-they have other issues that need addressing (other than the gunshot wound).
That settled; +1 for pax's comments.
drinking establishment (not in the bar part, but rather a table for food) and words start to 'roll'between the groups...I'm out of there. My permit is more important to me than who wins a football game.
I don't go to bars anyway...just a place looking for an accident to happen.
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In the state of Florida your are not allowed in a bar with a gun. That's OK with me because if I was going to drink it would be at home. I can see myself shooting somebody over a ball game. Crazy is, as Crazy does. Go figure.
You might be a Redneck if: You've ever pruned your trees with a shotgun.
The victim of the shooting, Jason Campagna, is my husband. I can assure you that he in no way instigated the altercation that took place. He never laid a hand on any member of the Sears family. In fact, my husband was simply trying to protect his much smaller friend by stepping in front of him to protect him from the much larger Sears who was trying to come at his friend. My husband had no knowledge of Patrick Sears having a gun in his possession. My husband didn't even realize he was shot until a friend in the group told him he was shot!
All of this happened over a stupid football game and a few drunks (the Sears men) who took to violence. Now my husband is left with a bullet in his back and will suffer with intense back pain for the rest of his life. His professional life was damaged for a number of years following the attack. The Sears family never paid one cent of the court-ordered restitution, and Patrick Sears, the shooter, never served a day of his prison sentence. Where's the justice in this case?