Some Good Advice for Staying Safe in Crowds from FBI :

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Thread: Some Good Advice for Staying Safe in Crowds from FBI :

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    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    Some Good Advice for Staying Safe in Crowds from FBI :

    Advice from FBI Instructor on Safety in Crowded Places: This is very good I think, both for quelling fear and giving us some practical tips, including those based on intuition of danger, interesting:

    Can we feel safe in a crowd anymore?

    (CNN) Can we feel safe in a crowd anymore? - CNN.com

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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Interesting reading. The #1 thing they talk about: situational awareness. Not a surprise to most of us.
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    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    If a perpetrator enters through an exit, such as in the Aurora shooting, a group assault on the individual may be the only tangible way to end a massacre. A few may lose their lives, but many others will be spared. It is in these moments, in the military or civilian life, where heroes emerge.
    History has shown that the more 'civilized' a society becomes the more likely they are to sit back and wait on others to step forward when danger comes. Yes this is where heroes emerge, which is why I get so aggravated when the term hero is given out so readily. Heroes are not that common.

    Michael
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    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walleye View Post
    Can we feel safe in a crowd anymore?
    Anyone can feel safe, but of course we all know that no one can be safe when a stranger is within 21 feet. Ever hear "Confidence is what we feel when we don't fully understand the situation"? Same thing applies to safety.

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    There's a link in your posted story, Gun control or carry permits won't stop mass murder. It says "Tighter restrictions on gun purchasing -- for example, eliminating multiple gun sales and closing the gun-show loophole -- may help reduce America's gun violence problem generally, but mass murder is unlike most other forms of violent conflict." And it goes on to say that "In the chaos of the moment, few gun owners would be prepared to mount an effective counterattack. And in a crowded setting, such as the movie theater clouded with tear gas and smoke, it would be virtually impossible to distinguish the bad guy with a gun from the good guys with their guns."
    Nothing in either link makes me feel safer in violating the rights of honest citizens to carry. We have a general consensus that the Aurora situation is tactically problematic. But it is better for an intended victim to have a chance if the BG is standing over him or her. And many mass shootings are not so problematic as Holmes presented in Aurora.
    Train, be safe, carry on.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    One person said they were on the ground at his feet while he was shooting...that would have been a nice time to have had a 14 round 45 to be shooting straight up at him with. I'm not knocking the person, I'm just saying they were that close and he was focused on people farther away. Proximity and opportunity.
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    Senior Member Array velo99's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=BugDude;2326944]One person said they were on the ground at his feet while he was shooting...that would have been a nice time to have had a 14 round 45 to be shooting straight up at him with. I'm not knocking the person, I'm just saying they were that close and he was focused on people farther away. Proximity and opportunity.[/QUOT6E]

    Time for a stout groin strike or slice his achilles with the trusty clip knife.

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    Distinguished Member Array Once's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=velo99;2327108]
    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    One person said they were on the ground at his feet while he was shooting...that would have been a nice time to have had a 14 round 45 to be shooting straight up at him with. I'm not knocking the person, I'm just saying they were that close and he was focused on people farther away. Proximity and opportunity.[/QUOT6E]

    Time for a stout groin strike or slice his achilles with the trusty clip knife.
    I would agree if you're at that point you might as well try something, armed or not you're probably next

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    After watcing some news clips last night, that guy had already been shot twice. I'm not arm chair quarterbacking this guy, I'm just saying that would have been a convenient time if one were to have been armed.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

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    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
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    No

    Quote Originally Posted by Pistology View Post
    There's a link in your posted story, Gun control or carry permits won't stop mass murder. It says "Tighter restrictions on gun purchasing -- for example, eliminating multiple gun sales and closing the gun-show loophole -- may help reduce America's gun violence problem generally, but mass murder is unlike most other forms of violent conflict." And it goes on to say that "In the chaos of the moment, few gun owners would be prepared to mount an effective counterattack. And in a crowded setting, such as the movie theater clouded with tear gas and smoke, it would be virtually impossible to distinguish the bad guy with a gun from the good guys with their guns."
    Nothing in either link makes me feel safer in violating the rights of honest citizens to carry. We have a general consensus that the Aurora situation is tactically problematic. But it is better for an intended victim to have a chance if the BG is standing over him or her. And many mass shootings are not so problematic as Holmes presented in Aurora.
    Train, be safe, carry on.
    They're problematic for the reason Holmes presented and more. This type of event and our reactions to it after the fact is called "The Black Swan Effect" - named for this: watching beautiful white swans move gracefully across a body of water - when we see a Black Swan float by we don't try to assign a reason for the event, it's unusualness and randomness are accepted.

    But when other external events/circumstances fly in our face that are telling, of the type that are just as random, unusual: flukes, Fate disguised as happenstance - when these rise to a level that throws into doubt our sense of control over reality and expose our vulnerability: we all go around trying to control it after the fact: we replay the tape and put ourselves there and alter the outcome, or someone does, or the "IFS" do: IF this or that law was in place or had been repealed we "know" the event would have a different ending. And since we now "know" the reasons we'll CONTROL the next one. It's all a myth but makes us feel better and once again in control of events. But we're not, and what would have happened IF didn't, and is unknowable and an intellectual mystery, nor will it happen to you because of its rarity, and if it did it wouldn't be "IT", it would be new and different. "IT" is done.

    Thus With JFK's Assassination and it's sudden and immensely profound effect on the country, the conspiracy theories came: because it is much more comfortable to believe a massive and hidden plan was at work than it is to accept that a whacky guy with a garbage rifle changed history. And Thus, Victor Frankl, the great psychologist-philosopher who lived through Auschwitz was able to have this insight: "The only power a man has, is power over his own thoughts".

    So more CCW or more gun control altering the outcome of the Movie massacre is an after-the-fact palliative drug, that in retrospect makes us feel safe. But is not true. It's unknowable.

    The only truth: it happened.

    I've posted much the same earlier, but everyone just goes on coming up with "solutions" as if the tape would ever play again. And so does the "other side". But the tape won't play again.
    Last edited by walleye; July 22nd, 2012 at 04:19 PM.

  12. #11
    Member Array rdpG19's Avatar
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    "Your plan of safety cannot be improvised. When you attend any public event, and that includes a service in a house of worship or an Olympic event, routinely look for and remember the location of exits in advance. If a perpetrator enters through an exit, such as in the Aurora shooting, a group assault on the individual may be the only tangible way to end a massacre. A few may lose their lives, but many others will be spared. It is in these moments, in the military or civilian life, where heroes emerge."

    Taken from the link above.
    walleye likes this.
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