Concealed Carry in Colorado question.

Concealed Carry in Colorado question.

This is a discussion on Concealed Carry in Colorado question. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I read an article in today's Milwaukee Journal that indicated that city's in the state are "no concealed carry cities". Like Aurora is a "no ...

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Thread: Concealed Carry in Colorado question.

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    Senior Member Array bandrich's Avatar
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    Concealed Carry in Colorado question.

    I read an article in today's Milwaukee Journal that indicated that city's in the state are "no concealed carry cities". Like Aurora is a "no concealed carry" city but it maybe legal to carry in a city sharing a border with Aurora. Is that true? You just can't carry all over the state with a CCL? Ick if that is true.
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    My understanding is that is not correct. State law has per-emption over city/county ordinances. Denver and several others cities took them to court and state law was upheld. They did grant Denver the right to ban OC I believe.
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    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    My understanding is that is not correct. State law has per-emption over city/county ordinances. Denver and several others cities took them to court and state law was upheld. They did grant Denver the right to ban OC I believe.
    Yup. I researched CO law pretty thoroughly last year when I had to make a week-long trip to Denver, and that was the what I determined too. CC is good with a permit anywhere, but local municipalities have the right to ban OC.

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    Member Array Takedown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    My understanding is that is not correct. State law has per-emption over city/county ordinances. Denver and several others cities took them to court and state law was upheld. They did grant Denver the right to ban OC I believe.
    As I understand it... this is correct!
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    Senior Member Array The Old Anglo's Avatar
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    So as I`m reading this..Nobody had a CC weapon in that movie theater??. I live in Florida and a lot of people have CC,that guy would have been riddled quick. Just stuns me that nobody intervened there.

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    Member Array nemo's Avatar
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    Concealed Carry in Colorado

    I'm surprised that no off duty LEOs or armed patrons were present in the theater when this went down. Any LEO would have taken action and I'm sure that any military vet who was armed would also have responded if able to do so without endangering him/herself or others. The shooter was a coward, as demonstrated by the effort he took to "armor" himself against retaliation. But a gas mask is not bullet resistant. Accurate return fire to center body mass may not have penetrated his vest, but it could have made him reconsider his options. And a 9mm +p or .40 JHP round to the face or head probably would have wounded if not killed him. In this day and age it never ceases to amaze me that few places of public assembly have any armed security.That’s why I provide my own armed security.

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    Member Array Ksthumper's Avatar
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    Even though local Colorado firearm control laws are or may still be "on the books", they are all pre-empted by State law.

    The only exception is the City and County of Denver which, in a CO Supreme Court ruling, prohibits Open Carry and has a assault weapons ban.

    Open Carry is legal anywhere in the State. Conceal Carry is legal, with restrictions, anywhere in the State with a permit [license]. Possession of a loaded handgun in a vehicle is legal with or without a permit. Loaded long guns in a vehicle is prohibited.

    It is not unusual for most USA local municipalities to prohibit the discharge of firearms.

    The laws as summarized in handgunlaw.us are current and correct.

    http://handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf

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    Colorado Concealed Carry law pre-empts all Municipal Code. All.

    Colorado's Open Carry law is NOT recognized in Denver, Arvada, and Breckenridge.

    The Cinemark Theaters are posted generally, although I do not know the exact facts with respect to the theater in Aurora subject to the tragedy.

    End of discussion. Anything else you hear anywhere else is INCORRECT.

    IFF you are a member and have evidence I am incorrect on this, please feel free to PM me, but we don't need another thread with possible erroneous info in it, although most of it above is spot on.


    Thanks for understanding.

    YMMV

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    Quote Originally Posted by bandrich View Post
    I read an article in today's Milwaukee Journal
    first mistake, "the dead tree" I guess they are ok for Packers coverage

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    One question I have is where was the security at the movie theater? Why was an exit door allowed to be opened without sounding an alarm and someone checking it out? Why was no one with a concealed carry permit armed at the time? I at least have one answer. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14 269.3 provides “It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission. . . .” So the State Government prevented a citizen from being able to protect themselves or others.
    So James Holmes was already in violation of the law when he walked through the door with firearms. My point being, someone that intends to do harm to others has total disregard of the law. This utopian law only prevented a concealed carry permit holder from having a handgun that possibly could have saved lives and injuries. Once again law abiding citizens were prevented from protecting themselves and loved ones by a Government that takes no responsibility for your protection. After all, the Supreme Court has ruled that, “it is not the job of the police to protect you”, if not the police, then who? Take a look in the mirror.
    A citizen with a Concealed Carry Permit has passed a background check that a lot of Cops, Lawyers and Judges couldn’t pass. So if we are talking about quality of character wouldn’t that indicate that the permit holder has earned the right to carry anywhere there could be a threat to his safety and the safety of others?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonheart View Post
    One question I have is where was the security at the movie theater? Why was an exit door allowed to be opened without sounding an alarm and someone checking it out? Why was no one with a concealed carry permit armed at the time? I at least have one answer. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14 269.3 provides “It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission. . . .” So the State Government prevented a citizen from being able to protect themselves or others.
    So James Holmes was already in violation of the law when he walked through the door with firearms. My point being, someone that intends to do harm to others has total disregard of the law. This utopian law only prevented a concealed carry permit holder from having a handgun that possibly could have saved lives and injuries. Once again law abiding citizens were prevented from protecting themselves and loved ones by a Government that takes no responsibility for your protection. After all, the Supreme Court has ruled that, “it is not the job of the police to protect you”, if not the police, then who? Take a look in the mirror.
    A citizen with a Concealed Carry Permit has passed a background check that a lot of Cops, Lawyers and Judges couldn’t pass. So if we are talking about quality of character wouldn’t that indicate that the permit holder has earned the right to carry anywhere there could be a threat to his safety and the safety of others?
    Alright, I give up. What exactly does a North Carolina law have to do with a shooting in Colorado?
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    Senior Member Array sdprof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Old Anglo View Post
    So as I`m reading this..Nobody had a CC weapon in that movie theater??. I live in Florida and a lot of people have CC,that guy would have been riddled quick. Just stuns me that nobody intervened there.
    By all reports, the theater was posted as a gun free zone (aka defenseless victim zone) by the theater management. While it appears such sign by itself does not carry force of law, many who CC would still abide by it.

    More to the point, if you run the math, you would find that it's statistically unlikely there would have been anyone CCing in the theater at all.
    - CO has a bit less than 3% of age eligibles holding a permit.
    - Theater has what, 400 seats? (that's probably generous)
    - Half the seats filled with underage kids? So we're at 200 "adults".
    - Of those adults, most would be young adults (who else goes to a Batman movie at midnight?
    - Of CC permit holders, younger adults (under 30) tend to be under represented
    - Of those with CC permits, a great many do not carry regularly
    - As mentioned, some who do carry would obey the no guns sign
    200 * .2( over 30s) * .03 ( percent with CC permit) * .5 (number who carry, and that's generous ) * .5 (those who wouldn't obey the sign ) = 1/3 of a person with a gun in the theater.

    So, at best, there might have been one person carrying. Would that person be up to the task, or take the route of protecting him/herself and family by ducking and running rather than return fire? I would not fault them for doing so.

    I also feel that had one or more persons returned fire, it could have made a significant difference. Even if Holmes was as armored up as initial reports indicated, just getting hit would confuse him, possibly make him retreat. He, and most mass shooters, tend to be cowards at heart. Fight back and you take the fight out of them. Look how meekly he surrendered to the police.

    Just my 2 cents.
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    Member Array WebleyHunter's Avatar
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    Generic No Gun Signs and CCW Permit Holders

    This is my understanding of Colorado law as is pertains to "No Guns" or "No Weapons" on private property that is open to the public (with our without admission), but does not have full time security check points in place with metal detectors, x-ray screening, etc.

    The signs DO NOT have the force of law behind them. They are purely as wish of the property owner, and carry no more weight than "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service", "No Outside Food or Drink", or "No Cell Phones". The only teeth they have is if you are discovered to be carrying a weapon (CC or OC), and they ask you to leave the property, you must do so immediately, or face a trespassing charge. This is the same as if I went barefoot to the local mall wearing an inappropriate t-shirt and was asked to leave.

    Now the debate on whether law abiding CCW permit holder should respect the wishes of the property owners and not carry on the premises is fodder for another topic.

    IF THE ABOVE IS WRONG, PLEASE CLARIFY AND CITE YOUR SOURCE!

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    Member Array tomtsr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonheart View Post
    N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14 269.3 provides “It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission. . . .” So the State Government prevented a citizen from being able to protect themselves or others.
    So James Holmes was already in violation of the law when he walked through the door with firearms.
    Not being critical, but Colorado law doe not include the restriction you quoted. That is North Carolina.

    Your point about "Him" (I won't even type the dirtbag's name) being in violation of the law when walking through the door would not be valid in this instance. However, everyone on this forum, and every other forum like it will agree that the law was no deterrence for him or any other criminal. I have never read or heard of a criminal stopping mid-stride because the law was contrary to their intended actions.

    I am an instructor and I want as many trained individuals as possible carrying and being able to protect themselves. And no I don't think that people should have to go through some rigorous qualification to carry. But I am also pretty sure that the ability level of most would have bullets flying everywhere and the numbers could have been much higher from friendly fire than that of the perp. Even if they were able to stop him.

    Utopia is a dream from both sides of the fence, and has been so on every issue that has ever been discussed. The firearms community says if everyone in the theater was armed, then they could have stopped the mayhem, Maybe, but I doubt they could have stopped it from happening, but they certainly could have lessened the carnage by him. I have seen enough people shoot to realize few would be trained to the point that they could realize that the perp was wearing body armor and take an accurate enough shot to stop him. The LA bank robbery gives sufficient evidence that even trained LEO's will shoot COM and not realize that their bullets are accomplishing nothing.

    The gun-grabbers say that this wouldn't have happened if gun control laws were stricter. A simple history lesson will teach that violence within a human's heart will find a way out, and any weapon could do. Cane didn't use a .45 to kill Able, and there are thousands of murders committed worldwide without a firearm.

    There is no reasonable excuse for what happened, nor is there a sure fire way to prevent it.
    Last edited by Rock and Glock; July 24th, 2012 at 06:59 PM.
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    Senior Member Array Freedom Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Old Anglo View Post
    So as I`m reading this..Nobody had a CC weapon in that movie theater??. I live in Florida and a lot of people have CC,that guy would have been riddled quick. Just stuns me that nobody intervened there.
    Well I have had a CC license for 13 years, but I would not have been there.
    I don't go out to movies anyway (I don't like their expensive soft drinks and popcorn, and the rude people that are often found at movies).
    Think about who WOULD be there, at midnight no less. I thought about it and decided it would be unlikely for anyone there to be armed. Just lots of sheep.
    Indeed, many of the responsible legal carriers would regard it as a violation of the 4S rule (don't go to stupid places at stupid times with stupid people doing stupid things.)
    Rock and Glock likes this.
    Anti-gunners seem to believe that if we just pass enough laws, we can have utopia. Unfortunately, utopia is NOT one of our choices.

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