Michigan Medical Marijuana and CCW/CPL
This is a discussion on Michigan Medical Marijuana and CCW/CPL within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've been reading about this, and the answers are never the same. I've been hearing that if you have a medical marijuana card, then you ...
Post By 1911247
Post By archer51
Post By Harryball
July 26th, 2012 03:26 AM
Michigan Medical Marijuana and CCW/CPL
I've been reading about this, and the answers are never the same. I've been hearing that if you have a medical marijuana card, then you can't get a ccw/cpl because it is federally mandated and once they find out, they consider you somebody that does illegal drugs.
Some people go along with this answer, while others have said "How are they going to find out?" So I'm hoping that somebody here is from Michigan or knows how this works here. I'm in a rough spot because I have my card right now because of back pain, it's set to expire in early August. So if the worst case scenario is true, then I have to make a choice between carrying a gun and taking pain pills (hate them so much) or having medical marijuana.
I get how the worst case scenario makes sense, but god is it annoying... I barely even smoke marijuana ha, just on those bad days.
July 26th, 2012 03:35 AM
Ill make it simple. if your considered to be using illegal drugs while holding a ccw because your the influance of marijuana.......
Stop smoking pot. That simple.
The "how are they going to find out" is simple. If your pulled over, and have a CCW and a gun on you and your high........not gonna go over well. NTM it will be considered lying on the CCW form.
Its not worth it. Not to mention, look at your judgement when you are under the influence of anything. You had talked earlier about fear of a AD/ND.......pot will increase the chances of this 10x fold. and if you have a AD while intoxicated. it is now a ND and you will face severe repercussions of it.
Also if you are involved in a Self defense shooting. It may be a clean shoot, but the DA will peg you to the wall because you were high and used a gun against another person. That to them will severely question the clarity of your thought process during the shoot. and you will probably not come out on the clean end of the stick.
Forget the pot. try acupuncture. or some other natural form of pain relief. but as far as the law goes. POT+GUN= jail time :/
July 26th, 2012 03:44 AM
Well I'm not gonna get pulled over high cause I don't drive high. I'd also be fine with not having my gun on me while high. As far as AD/ND goes while high, I'm definitely not trying to touch a gun while I'm intoxicated.
However... how will they know if I'm high at that moment? They could do drug tests, but that goes as far back as a month if you're a heavy user. With how our legal system works though, I'm sure that could f me over. Lying on the CCW form is also a good point, though I've talked to people that know firearm instructors that have their med card. So this is a really weird spot to be in.
thanks for the response
July 26th, 2012 03:53 AM
Its simple to tell if someone is high bro you should know this haha. NTM lets say they think your high. They give you a test. You've had your CCW for 2 months.........test comes back positive.........BOOM you lied on your Federal forum. Which in itself is a felony. Thats a very good reason not to. You will lose your CCW and never get it back again, plus you may face heavy criminal charges to boot.
And dont listen to word of mouth on the NRA instructor part. Im not saying they arnt out there, but unless one told you face to face that he has his card and still carries. I wouldn't put much salt into hearsay. NRA instructors teach firearms safety, and any NRA instructor , myself included will tell you that drugs and guns are like water and electricity, only thing you get out of them is a volatile situation.
Ill leave you with this. Your right to carry firearms can be taken away. You have this right now. And what choices you make in life will decide whether you keep that right. I cant tell you what to do , nor can anyone else. But as i've said before. Use your head. Think about it. Weigh the good and the bad and make your own decision. In the end you will know whats right, whats wrong, and what could get you in hot water.
Stay safe bro. :-)
July 26th, 2012 07:28 AM
While the state of Michigan may consider medicinal marijuana a legal drug, the Federal government does not recognize it as one. Just looking at the MI application the use on medicinal marijuana would disqualify you under the section addressing Federal disqualifications.
Regardless, if you are using any drug (prescription/marijuana/alcohol) that alters your judgement or reflexes, you need to leave the gun locked up.
Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.
NRA Life Member
July 26th, 2012 07:39 AM
Marijuana and guns do not mix. You are in violation of federal law if you have both.
Don"t let stupid be your skill set....
And Shepards we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee,
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, So that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command,
And we shall flow a river forth to Thee, And teeming with souls shall it ever be,
July 26th, 2012 08:22 AM
Actually he is in violation of federal law if he has one (Marijuana).
Originally Posted by Harryball
To the OP: I am not going to tell you to not smoke Marijuana, but I do think you are setting yourself up for some serious problems, particularly if you have to use your weapon in self-defense. Chances are that the prosecution is going to portray you as so high that you didn't know what you were doing (therefore your testimony is unable to be trusted, and you most likely shot the BG in a drug induced stupor, or that the shooting was a drug deal gone bad, etc...).
Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men -St. Augustine
July 26th, 2012 08:53 AM
That's what I was thinking. I believe the OP may be concerned over the least likely scenario. Most folks pursue CCW/CPL to protect their life in the event of an assault. If you, heaven forbid, ever have to use your handgun to defend yourself or your family I would suppose the subsequent investigation might include a blood test for you. If that blood test comes back positive for marijuana, even if you weren't buzzed at the time of the shooting, the DA (or the plaintiff's attorney in the civil suit to follow) can twist that evidence into some very convincing jury leverage. Mixing bongs & bullets is a BAD IDEA!
There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.
July 26th, 2012 09:04 AM
I seems to me that you have a simple choice - pot or gun. There IS a third choice - both gun AND pot, lie through your teeth & risk a felony charge.
USN Submarine & UDT/SEAL Veteran
1SG, US Army Retired - Airborne Infantry All the Way!
Retired PI/Armed Security
July 26th, 2012 09:14 AM
I used to smoke weed for a long time and I never remember it killing pain, it might relax you and take tension off but as a pain killer it is not.
Supreme Court Rejects Medical Marijuana Gun Rights Case
Cynthia Willis, a resident of the tiny town of Gold Hill, Oregon had been a long-time concealed hand-gun permit owner. In the town of about 1200 residents, Willis, a retired school bus driver, was looking to renew her concealed handgun permit when the sheriff in Jackson County that oversees the permitting found out she was also an Oregon Medical Marijuana Patient. Willis took her battle to court in 2008 over the matter.
July 26th, 2012 09:42 AM
Well your wrong. It is a painkiller. Over half my clients use MM to help Id with the pain and nausea of chemo.
The answer to this is simple. Any pot, no gun. Dont lie. If you do shoot someone and its a good shoot, the fact you survived will probably please you. I have been watching this with interest because it concerns me. I.dont see how people can have access to alchohol or say vicodine and ita.not a felony.
The federal government will figure this out. Just dont be the test case.
Originally Posted by barstoolguru
July 26th, 2012 10:05 AM
There really is no definitive answer on this. After reviewing the ATF letter on the matter and the above mentioned court case:
This one is a big cloud of gray....or is that a Purple Haze?????
Jackson County Sheriff Mike Winters argued that issuing the license would violate federal law, specifically the Gun Control Act of 1968. That act from 44 years ago specifically forbids anyone who uses or is addicted to a controlled substance from having a firearm. The court found that Sheriff Winters had no precedent to deny Ms Willis her renewed gun permit license based on the fact she was a medical marijuana patient. The sheriff took the case to an appellate court, where Willis prevailed again, then Winters took the case all the way to the Oregon Supreme Court. The highest court in Oregon also agreed with the lower courts.
Either way, there really is No answer that will be 100% correct. There is plenty of supposition about the legality of it, but there is now legal precedent supporting MM and Carry permits.
The MI carry permit app has the following language:
MCL 250.224f doe mention unlawful possession of a controlled substance, however if MM is legal in MI and the OP has his card etc. it would not appear to be unlawful possession
8. Not be prohibited from possessing, using, transporting, selling, purchasing, carrying, shipping, receiving, or distributing a firearm under MCL 750.224f.
However, as stated, the permit app includes the following:
B. Federal Requirements
Pursuant to MCL 28.426, a Concealed Pistol License may not be issued to a person prohibited under federal law from possessing or transporting a firearm. The federal requirements to possess or transport a firearm include that the applicant:
Not have been convicted in any court of, or under indictment for, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year (e.g. felony or misdemeanor punishable by 2 years).
Not be a fugitive of justice.
Not be an unlawful user of, or addicted to, any controlled substance, as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802).
According to the ATF letter, the Federal law makes no distinction between unlawful pot use and permitted medicinal use.
This is really a question for the state's Attorney General and not for the forum.
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