Realistic thoughts on theater defense as a CHL holder

This is a discussion on Realistic thoughts on theater defense as a CHL holder within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Last night I went to a late showing of the new Batman movie with my son and about 20 others from our church youth group, ...

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 56
Like Tree35Likes

Thread: Realistic thoughts on theater defense as a CHL holder

  1. #1
    Member Array MadDawg34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Plano, TX
    Posts
    43

    Realistic thoughts on theater defense as a CHL holder

    Last night I went to a late showing of the new Batman movie with my son and about 20 others from our church youth group, and with last weeks events in my mind, here are my thoughts...

    1. I made a conscious effort to watch people moving in and out of the theater after the movie started. Even in a normal setting of LOUD movie soundtrack, and darkness I would argue with anyone that says identifying a potential nut case would be easy at all. I have perfect vision and pride myself on noticing the details in life, but in that room there is NO WAY TO TELL if someone was carrying a pistol, or a long gun, or even dressed in full swat gear after the movie starts. I can't imagine trying to do it with smoke or tear gas in the way as well.

    2. Even after shots being fired (even if you could make the realization over the movie sound of gunfire), finding where they are coming from or even thinking about retaliating would be next to impossible. By my deduction, the ONLY way you would have a chance is A) if you were willing to stand up, gather some sort of idea as to who the BG was, and then charge at him with absolutely no fear for your own safety, or B) he happened to wander right by your isle while you were laying down as low as you could get.

    3. In our theater, which was the largest in the building, there were only about 100 people. But even that low a number, in a room of panic with flying bullets, smoke, darkness, extremely loud noises and screaming, I don't think the most trained special forces operator or LEO could have done anything beyond ushering people out to the best of his ability. Just giving averages, the shot to the BG would have been 10 yards at minimum, which is a sniper shot in a dark room with 100 people going nuts in every direction.

    After analyzing my thoughts, I think the best an armed citizen could of hoped for in that situation was putting the weapon in hand and HOPING that divine intervention would put the BG right in front of you as you tried to exit the room with everyone else. If statistics are true that in Texas only 1 out of every 100 people have a CHL (very unlikely that that entire 1% is actually carrying at any given time)...then I was the only one armed while watching that movie. Which is sad in my book, because I truly believe that the more responsible citizens that are armed, the higher the odds play in the "luck" factors I mentioned above!

    Just my thoughts as I listen to the "gun control" arguement vs. the bravado of those "sheepdogs" that say they could have prevented this guy with no sweat! (I can't stand either side of that arguement).

    Thanks for listening. Be safe, alert, and caught up on your prayers wherever you may go!
    suntzu, Fisher10 and PatAz like this.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    6,974
    There are some that would take action. They would not have prevented the event, but might have made it a little hard on the BG. Maybe even ending him. There are others that would have done nothing. That being said, both sides are right. It is a personal choice to be made. Be armed, be safe....
    Guest1 and Bad Bob like this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array JohnLeVick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Texas High Plains
    Posts
    568
    In short, here's my take: None of us, including myself, knows for sure if, assuming we didn't catch a lethal bullet on the opening barrage, we'd react appropriately, or freeze, crap our pants, and scream like a little girl. I'd like to think that I'd do the former, given my countless hours of training as both trainee and trainer, but we truthfully don't know unless we were there. That said, I've seen NOTHING to indicate that this red-wigged mullet couldn't have been stopped by a half-trained citizen with a J-frame .38 and a modicum of skill, at least sometime before the death and injury toll reached the point where it finally ended.
    bmcgilvray likes this.

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,255
    Not all that could be armed would take action, some would not no madder what.
    Someone would have, maybe more than one that would have made a difference.
    If as report some had the time and frame of mind to cover up a protect others with them action by 1 or by a few could have made a major difference.
    FT Hood he opened fire on unarmed soldiers but at least when the armed security got there they stopped him, it could have been worst.
    There are those of us that have had to use our weapons and would have done something not big boy talk fact.

  6. #5
    Member Array CPanther95's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    237
    Quote Originally Posted by MadDawg34 View Post

    After analyzing my thoughts, I think the best an armed citizen could of hoped for in that situation was putting the weapon in hand and HOPING that divine intervention would put the BG right in front of you as you tried to exit the room with everyone else. If statistics are true that in Texas only 1 out of every 100 people have a CHL (very unlikely that that entire 1% is actually carrying at any given time)...then I was the only one armed while watching that movie. Which is sad in my book, because I truly believe that the more responsible citizens that are armed, the higher the odds play in the "luck" factors I mentioned above!

    Just my thoughts as I listen to the "gun control" arguement vs. the bravado of those "sheepdogs" that say they could have prevented this guy with no sweat! (I can't stand either side of that arguement).

    Thanks for listening. Be safe, alert, and caught up on your prayers wherever you may go!
    You hit he nail on the head. The random guy in that situation would have had little luck in stopping him from across the theater (yes, even with a green laser), the ones that had a good chance of success were the handful he passed going up the aisle, or the few that could approach from behind. You needed someone that was armed, and willing to act, that was in that small percentage of people.

    The moral of the story is that we need more responsible people carrying as many places as possible, not less.
    Armey likes this.

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    3,475
    Not claiming it would be easy, but
    1) While you can't tell what someone is wearing, you can definitely distinguish muzzle flash in a darkened theater from the movie, and as loud as movies are, gunfire is much louder.
    2) He was also silhouetted against the screen with everyone moving away from him
    BigStick and RevolvingMag like this.

  8. #7
    Member Array KingWalleye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    The Peoples Republik of Illinois
    Posts
    125
    Quote Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post
    You hit he nail on the head. The random guy in that situation would have had little luck in stopping him from across the theater (yes, even with a green laser), the ones that had a good chance of success were the handful he passed going up the aisle, or the few that could approach from behind. You needed someone that was armed, and willing to act, that was in that small percentage of people.

    The moral of the story is that we need more responsible people carrying as many places as possible, not less.
    True and truer. Well said my friends.

    The common denominator in all but but one or two mass shooting is that no one was there with a gun for defensive purposes.

  9. #8
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fayetteville, AR
    Posts
    13,687
    Realistic thoughts on theater defense as a CHL holder
    Realistically? In a chaotic environment with folks running and screaming? Could you focus on a good head shot from 50 feet away? Some folks are going to chime in with the laser perhaps. Thing is........it's also going to be dark. I've personally drawn my pistol and someone ran in between me and the target. That target happened to be an overly aggressive dog, but nonetheless. Take the shot if you're absolutely sure that you won't put others at risk. Even is you take down a lunatic like this.......you may not turn out to be a hero (you know how fickle things are these days, and the media is going to paint you in a swirl pattern with cotton candy stripes). Your best bet for movie theater defense might very well be a level III ballistic vest (body armor). Check your local laws to see if you can legally own body armor. It's either that or forget about going to movie theaters at all. That would be the simplest way to solve a dilemma......don't ever put yourself in the position in the first place.

  10. #9
    Member Array bigdogtx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    457
    Quote Originally Posted by MadDawg34 View Post
    Last night I went to a late showing of the new Batman movie with my son and about 20 others from our church youth group, and with last weeks events in my mind, here are my thoughts...

    1. I made a conscious effort to watch people moving in and out of the theater after the movie started. Even in a normal setting of LOUD movie soundtrack, and darkness I would argue with anyone that says identifying a potential nut case would be easy at all. I have perfect vision and pride myself on noticing the details in life, but in that room there is NO WAY TO TELL if someone was carrying a pistol, or a long gun, or even dressed in full swat gear after the movie starts. I can't imagine trying to do it with smoke or tear gas in the way as well.

    2. Even after shots being fired (even if you could make the realization over the movie sound of gunfire), finding where they are coming from or even thinking about retaliating would be next to impossible. By my deduction, the ONLY way you would have a chance is A) if you were willing to stand up, gather some sort of idea as to who the BG was, and then charge at him with absolutely no fear for your own safety, or B) he happened to wander right by your isle while you were laying down as low as you could get.

    3. In our theater, which was the largest in the building, there were only about 100 people. But even that low a number, in a room of panic with flying bullets, smoke, darkness, extremely loud noises and screaming, I don't think the most trained special forces operator or LEO could have done anything beyond ushering people out to the best of his ability. Just giving averages, the shot to the BG would have been 10 yards at minimum, which is a sniper shot in a dark room with 100 people going nuts in every direction.

    After analyzing my thoughts, I think the best an armed citizen could of hoped for in that situation was putting the weapon in hand and HOPING that divine intervention would put the BG right in front of you as you tried to exit the room with everyone else. If statistics are true that in Texas only 1 out of every 100 people have a CHL (very unlikely that that entire 1% is actually carrying at any given time)...then I was the only one armed while watching that movie. Which is sad in my book, because I truly believe that the more responsible citizens that are armed, the higher the odds play in the "luck" factors I mentioned above!

    Just my thoughts as I listen to the "gun control" arguement vs. the bravado of those "sheepdogs" that say they could have prevented this guy with no sweat! (I can't stand either side of that arguement).

    Thanks for listening. Be safe, alert, and caught up on your prayers wherever you may go!
    Quote Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post
    You hit he nail on the head. The random guy in that situation would have had little luck in stopping him from across the theater (yes, even with a green laser), the ones that had a good chance of success were the handful he passed going up the aisle, or the few that could approach from behind. You needed someone that was armed, and willing to act, that was in that small percentage of people.

    The moral of the story is that we need more responsible people carrying as many places as possible, not less.
    Agree with both of you, that the biggest problem is we are few in numbers and even fewer that have the training and still fewer that could/would respond. I still feel that the perp did not want to die and "may" not have even went in there if he thought there were several armed attendees.

    At least there are MANY more aware of what could happen, which I assume why gun sales are up 50% in Colorado.

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    So. Central PA
    Posts
    1,734
    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Realistically?

    <snip>

    It's either that or forget about going to movie theaters at all. That would be the simplest way to solve a dilemma......don't ever put yourself in the position in the first place.
    My wife and I did just that, decided not to go to movie theaters. Made that decision after going to see RED (fun movie) at the theater, and renting it in HD to watch at home on the Flatscreen. Why?

    First, we're 70 and don't like being in crowds.
    Second, the picture on the screen at the theater sucks compared to blueray on our big flatscreen at home.
    Third, the sound system at home (ear phones) works better for me.
    Fourth, I'm diabetic, can't eat the snacks in the theater.
    Fifth, going to movies is expensive compared to renting the movie from the Cable Supplier.
    And finally, the theater is posted for no carry. We don't go places where we can't carry unless there is no choice.

    I guess a bonus is if some one does decide to come into our theater, we have no problem locating them and shooting back. We are real clear on who the good guys and bad guys are when we are home.

    Fitch
    l1a1, Bad Bob and mano3 like this.
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety), by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” by H. L. Mencken

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Gulf Coast of Florida
    Posts
    9,341
    The odds would be stacked against you for sure, and the opportunity to do something may not present itself depending on where you are in relation to the perp, if you were hit, if you had kids with you, smoke, etc....given all of that, I'd still rather be holding a pistol than a box of popcorn whether I am in a position to use it or not.
    Last edited by BugDude; July 27th, 2012 at 06:08 AM. Reason: kant spel
    archer51, Bad Bob and JerryMac like this.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  13. #12
    Member Array GrandBob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    in the South,by God!
    Posts
    217
    Ya know, with all that analyzing going one, I may to have to agree with you.

    If the unthinkable happens when I am in a movie theater, it might be best just to put my pistol on the floor, and wave a napkin as a white flag of surrender in hopes that you I get shot...since from your perspective it's virtually unwinnable.

    I mean...that is what you are suggesting right? Since its unwinnable to YOU from your perspective, then it cant be done, no one else should even attempt it.


    Just my thoughts as I listen to the "gun control" arguement vs. the bravado of those "sheepdogs" that say they could have prevented this guy with no sweat! (I can't stand either side of that arguement).

    I cant stand people that say the fight is unwinnable without even trying.

    Since the advantage goes to the shooter, maybe I should go sell all of my guns.

    Just in case, I think I'll keep a hankerchief in my pocket so that I wont be without my white flag.

    One other thought before I skeet on out...would you happen to be French by any chance?

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array JJVP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    501
    Quote Originally Posted by MadDawg34 View Post
    After analyzing my thoughts, I think the best an armed citizen could of hoped for in that situation was putting the weapon in hand and HOPING that divine intervention would put the BG right in front of you as you tried to exit the room with everyone else. If statistics are true that in Texas only 1 out of every 100 people have a CHL (very unlikely that that entire 1% is actually carrying at any given time)...then I was the only one armed while watching that movie. Which is sad in my book, because I truly believe that the more responsible citizens that are armed, the higher the odds play in the "luck" factors I mentioned above!
    Your numbers are a little off. You have more help than you realize. There are over 500,000 CHL's in TX. With a population of over 25,000,000 the rate of CHL is closer to 2%. The adult population is over 13,000,000 which makes the actual CHL rate closer to 4% of the adult populalation.

  15. #14
    Ex Member Array walleye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    erie PA
    Posts
    677

    Ballistic Clothing:

    Quote Originally Posted by MadDawg34 View Post
    Last night I went to a late showing of the new Batman movie with my son and about 20 others from our church youth group, and with last weeks events in my mind, here are my thoughts...

    1. I made a conscious effort to watch people moving in and out of the theater after the movie started. Even in a normal setting of LOUD movie soundtrack, and darkness I would argue with anyone that says identifying a potential nut case would be easy at all. I have perfect vision and pride myself on noticing the details in life, but in that room there is NO WAY TO TELL if someone was carrying a pistol, or a long gun, or even dressed in full swat gear after the movie starts. I can't imagine trying to do it with smoke or tear gas in the way as well.

    2. Even after shots being fired (even if you could make the realization over the movie sound of gunfire), finding where they are coming from or even thinking about retaliating would be next to impossible. By my deduction, the ONLY way you would have a chance is A) if you were willing to stand up, gather some sort of idea as to who the BG was, and then charge at him with absolutely no fear for your own safety, or B) he happened to wander right by your isle while you were laying down as low as you could get.

    3. In our theater, which was the largest in the building, there were only about 100 people. But even that low a number, in a room of panic with flying bullets, smoke, darkness, extremely loud noises and screaming, I don't think the most trained special forces operator or LEO could have done anything beyond ushering people out to the best of his ability. Just giving averages, the shot to the BG would have been 10 yards at minimum, which is a sniper shot in a dark room with 100 people going nuts in every direction.

    After analyzing my thoughts, I think the best an armed citizen could of hoped for in that situation was putting the weapon in hand and HOPING that divine intervention would put the BG right in front of you as you tried to exit the room with everyone else. If statistics are true that in Texas only 1 out of every 100 people have a CHL (very unlikely that that entire 1% is actually carrying at any given time)...then I was the only one armed while watching that movie. Which is sad in my book, because I truly believe that the more responsible citizens that are armed, the higher the odds play in the "luck" factors I mentioned above!

    Just my thoughts as I listen to the "gun control" arguement vs. the bravado of those "sheepdogs" that say they could have prevented this guy with no sweat! (I can't stand either side of that arguement).

    Thanks for listening. Be safe, alert, and caught up on your prayers wherever you may go!
    The most difficult problem - on top of all you mentioned - would be: the only place to hit would be the face, he had ballistic armor and clothing including his neck with a ballistic helmet on - (or just a helmet, not sure which). I don't think that would have been possible.

    How would you know that anyway, you'd hit him elsewhere, he now knows where you are and takes you out but fast.

  16. #15
    Member Array Fisher10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Western WA/Rexburg, ID
    Posts
    310
    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    Not claiming it would be easy, but
    1) While you can't tell what someone is wearing, you can definitely distinguish muzzle flash in a darkened theater from the movie, and as loud as movies are, gunfire is much louder.
    2) He was also silhouetted against the screen with everyone moving away from him
    So... Shoot at the general direction of what you believe is muzzle flash and a human silhouette in a dark theater filled to capacity...?

    I agree 100% with the OP. I saw the new Batman movie Wednesday night and also made similar observations and thought what would happen if I was in that theater. Being armed only with my LCP really put things into perspective as well. I believe that unless you were armed with a 'fighting handgun' (high capacity, 9mm or larger), reasonably close, aiming for the head or involved in a case of divine intervention, there would be no way anyone short of a tactical commando ninja (apparently we do have some of those on this site) would have effectively ended the slaughter in my opinion. We don't know how Holmes may have reacted to being shot at but with the body armor he was wearing (possibly in case someone was armed and shooting back) I think he would have kept on shooting unless shot in the head. I can only imagine the pure dark chaos and terror that went on in the Aurora theater during the shooting.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

can you conceal carry in a movie theater in texas

,
chl holders at batman movie
,

chl in movie theaters

,
chl into movie theaters
,
chl vest
,
if you are related to a member of the special forces can you get a chl early
,

texas chl in movie theater

,

texas chl in movie theatre

,

texas chl percentage

,
things the nra says chl carriers should carry
,
what do i have to shoot to qualify for tn chl
,
would conceal carry help in theatre shooting
Click on a term to search for related topics.