Sig 938 & 238 cocked and locked? - Page 4

Sig 938 & 238 cocked and locked?

This is a discussion on Sig 938 & 238 cocked and locked? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Thunder71 No grip safety on a 938 or 238, why are people comparing them to carrying a 1911? Well, I'd say; if ...

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Thread: Sig 938 & 238 cocked and locked?

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    No grip safety on a 938 or 238, why are people comparing them to carrying a 1911?
    Well, I'd say; if for whatever reason you removed the safe trigger system off the Glock, would you then not consider it a Glock. It's a safety on a particular platform, and not a platform built around the safety.. It's still a 1911 platform just a scaled down version and minus the grip safety... To be totally technical, the Colt Government 380 did have the grip safety, so it was truly a scaled down version of the 1911. Great pistol BTW..
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

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  2. #47
    Distinguished Member Array grouse's Avatar
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    I carry my 1911's & my Hi-Power condition one & in a holster. The little Sigs or the Colt Mustang (If I had One) I'm sure I'd do the same with a good holster.

  3. #48
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    The 938 and 238 are neat little toys but I personally would have a hangup carrying something that small cocked and locked. Personal opinion is there are better choices that require less mechanical motion (read that as take the safety off) required to deploy. Time spent not pulling the trigger can equate to time spent bleeding on the floor on your behalf. Also, my personal opinion of DA/SA or SA only toys is once the shooting is over you have a hyped-up person (could be me. Could be you) with a cocked gun. I will take my chance with a DAO platform.
    At one with the gun.

  4. #49
    New Member Array diego711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
    The 938 and 238 are neat little toys but I personally would have a hangup carrying something that small cocked and locked. Personal opinion is there are better choices that require less mechanical motion (read that as take the safety off) required to deploy. Time spent not pulling the trigger can equate to time spent bleeding on the floor on your behalf. Also, my personal opinion of DA/SA or SA only toys is once the shooting is over you have a hyped-up person (could be me. Could be you) with a cocked gun. I will take my chance with a DAO platform.
    Can't fault you for feeling that way: That's why restaurants serve chicken AND steak. Nothing wrong with DAO, but I love the simplicity of SAO.
    1911's (and the like) are among my favorite guns.
    For whatever reason, a thumb safety is what makes me feel the most comfortable, plus I like steel, so that's what I go with.

  5. #50
    Member Array firecrackerktm's Avatar
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    238, cocked and locked.

    It is my first 1911 style pistol and it did kind of make me nervous at first, but I was really just overthinking it. My 229 has no manual safety, and I carried that with a round in the chamber and decocked. The 238 is actually probably safer.

  6. #51
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    Well I guess I'm in the minority. I have a P238, don't carry it much. When I do, I carry it condition 3 (no round in chamber). For me the need for safety outweighs the need to get a gun into action that fast. If I don't have a split second to rack the slide, then I guess the bad guy gets the first shot - at least if I survive I'll have a pretty good case for SD.

    I also own and carry 1911s on occasion and for 4 years in the military. I carry my .45s in condition 1 (cocked and locked) but ONLY if I have a holster with a strap that goes between the hammer and the slide (as most leather holsters do).

  7. #52
    New Member Array nmitchell1185's Avatar
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    It WOULD take an act of God, or Darwin.

    Quote Originally Posted by diego711 View Post
    Hi everyone, first post. New member. Been a gun owner for years but finally getting into concealed carry.

    I just picked up a Sig P938 Blackwood and intend to carry it cocked and locked as I would with nearly any 1911-ish SAO design.
    Something many don't consider about carrying hammer down: It comes with it's own risks.

    There is a remote chance that the gun could go off when dropped while the hammer is down.
    Granted, it would nearly take an act of God, but it is *possible*.

    When I first grabbed this gun, I de-cocked it a few times in the store, just for laughs.
    In order to get the hammer all the way down, you have to hold the trigger all the way down the entire time.
    In other words, the trigger doesn't only release the hammer in the back; it's holds on in multiple (what feels like at least 2) stages.
    If you pull the trigger, begin de-cocking and let go of the trigger the rest of the time (like you would with, say, nearly any revolver), the hammer will actually get stuck halfway down and will not fully decock unless you keep another finger firmly on the trigger.

    In other words, when a gun with or similar to a 1911 SAO design is cocked, there is a lot HOLDING it cocked, and if you've got a thumb safey, even if its off, dropping the gun isn't going to let it fire unless there is an absolutely catastrophic failure.

    As they would say in Silence of the Lambs: "It keeps the hammer off the bullet. It does what it's told."

    In other words, unlike a revolver or some DAO or DA/SA guns, the 1911 design WANTS TO and TRIES TO stay cocked....

    Does this make sense?
    I apologize for reviving an old thread but I thought I would clear something up on this....

    The way the Sig 938 and 238 triggers are set up, they cannot fire even if dropped on the hammer. The reason for this is because there is a 'fork' that blocks the firing pin until the trigger is pulled. When, and only when, the trigger is pulled does this slide down out of the way allowing the firing pin to move forward. I can only think of 4 ways for the gun to go off in this configuration, 1. the trigger is pulled (what is supposed to happen), 2. someone modified the gun so this feature was removed (Darwin at work), 3. a catastrophic failure of the trigger assembly/firing mechanism (act of God) or 4. someone deliberately tried to get the gun to fire without the trigger being pulled (Darwin at it again).

  8. #53
    Nix
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    I carry "Cocked and locked". Great small pistol. I use a couple different holsters. Never had an issue with the safety disengaging unintentionally.

    Nothing wrong with carrying the 938 without a round in the chamber, but you had better train well and often.

  9. #54
    Member Array Enzo411's Avatar
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    To each his own but I've never liked the idea of a single action handgun with just a thumb safety.
    Different than a 1911 with a thumb safety and a grip safety and different that a handgun with no safety but with a heavier trigger pull.
    "If there is trouble, I stay here to help you. For your father -- for your father."

  10. #55
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    Reading through the posts in this thread, I see no mention of one premium safety feature available on a P938 and a few other 1911 style guns including my beloved Star PD, uncocked and locked. This is one of the few choices I personaly feel safe from NDs while carrying a round chambered. People are not robots or infallible. NDs do happen. One police chief has NDed himself twice in 20 years.

    I most often carry Glocks with a full magazine and open chamber, but a 1911 round chambered uncocked and locked is acceptable to me.

    I would not bring a gun to a fistfight, but I would bring a pair of brass knuckles to sway the odds in my favor. O wait, brass knuckles are against the law. Given lemons, make lemonade. If attacked in a fistfight, a handgun across the chin will knock someone out, and a carry permit is a permit to use a handgun for self protection. If I shoot someone attacking me with their fists, I go to jail and more than likely will be the subject of criminal and civil procedings. Chambered, uncocked and locked means one has more choices in how they can use a gun for self protection.

    I hope and plan to never present a handgun for self protection or the protection of my family, but we live in a world where politicians allow predictors to walk among the good people. I never walk around unaware, so I feel cocked and locked is more ready than I need or feel comfortable with 24/7, and it gives me fewer ways I can safely use my handgun to protect myself.
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  11. #56
    VIP Member Array JDE101's Avatar
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    John Browning designed the 1911 to be carried cocked and locked. That is the way I carry mine and that is the way I carry my Sig P238. The 1911 was not designed to be used as a "club" in a fist fight! It was meant to be fired in a gun fight. And that is the only way I will use mine! It isn't a club, it isn't a hammer, it isn't a substitute for brass knuckles!
    Live to ride, ride to live. Harley Road King And keep a .45 handy Kimber Custom TLE II

  12. #57
    New Member Array Boondocks's Avatar
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    Wife - P238 C&L
    Me - P938 C&L

  13. #58
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    As I type this I'm packing a SIG P238 cocked and locked in an IWB at 3:00 under an un-tucked T-shirt.

    Fitch
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety), by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” by H. L. Mencken

  14. #59
    Senior Member Array Gaius's Avatar
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    Think about it. With your typical striker fired pistol, you need only one thing to go wrong if you carry with one in the chamber. That is, someone (you) pull the trigger when you did not intend to do so. And typically again, the average similar gun has a trigger pull of 5 to 7 pounds. With the 938 carried cocked and locked, you need TWO things to go wrong. First, someone (you) must disengage the safety. THEN, someone must pull the trigger. The trigger pull on the 938 from the factory is around 7.5 to 8.5 pounds, as heavy or heavier that the striker fired gun. I would submit the 938 cocked and locked is the safer of the two choices.
    Nix likes this.
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  15. #60
    Nix
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    The trigger pull on the 938 from the factory is around 7.5 to 8.5 pounds, as heavy or heavier that the striker fired gun. I would submit the 938 cocked and locked is the safer of the two choices.
    I like your points, but I think the trigger pull is lighter than that on my 938. I may be wrong. I'll have to test that. Regardless, a 938 in C1, in a good holster, seems safe to me.

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