sitting down in public

This is a discussion on sitting down in public within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by JDlewis Yea true but the likely hood of a bad guy coming into a church and shooting it up is far less ...

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  1. #76
    Member Array DubH00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDlewis View Post
    Yea true but the likely hood of a bad guy coming into a church and shooting it up is far less then someone else. Plus like the church I go to there is already cops there so I have not need to carry in there.


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    Man shot and killed during prayers at Atlanta-area megachurch; suspect arrested - U.S. News

    Here in GA is illegal to carry in a church by law on the books...but there is also a gray area and the church can be treated like private property. Here in GA, as long as the "head of security" or the Pastor know that you carry, they may approve of you having your weapon. I know at my church its 3 of us on the security team and all 3 are CC'ing. Needless to say we have been blessed with no problems. I know some mega churches, please believe there are armed security.

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  3. #77
    Ex Member Array JDlewis's Avatar
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    sitting down in public

    Quote Originally Posted by DubH00 View Post
    Man shot and killed during prayers at Atlanta-area megachurch; suspect arrested - U.S. News

    Here in GA is illegal to carry in a church by law on the books...but there is also a gray area and the church can be treated like private property. Here in GA, as long as the "head of security" or the Pastor know that you carry, they may approve of you having your weapon. I know at my church its 3 of us on the security team and all 3 are CC'ing. Needless to say we have been blessed with no problems. I know some mega churches, please believe there are armed security.
    That good to here. The reason i can't carry at my church is it is also a school so that right there is a big no no!!!


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  4. #78
    Member Array DubH00's Avatar
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    I know if I visit other churches, I may just carry it in if they don't have any signs, and just keep my mouth closed or if they have a "head of security", maybe informed them. It all depends as long as its within the law.

    JDLewis...yeah you are in a sticky situation..I wonder if the Pastor asked you to, how would your local police feel.

  5. #79
    VIP Member Array high pockets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DubH00 View Post
    I know if I visit other churches, I may just carry it in if they don't have any signs, and just keep my mouth closed or if they have a "head of security", maybe informed them. It all depends as long as its within the law.
    You are skating on a slippery slope with this attitude. Georgia Carry is fighting to get the house of worship restriction removed, but it has not been rescinded, and there are no exceptions provided in the Georgia Statuary code. If you are not a law enforcement official, or some other exempt class of person, you are breaking the law to carry in a church in Georgia.

    Please note the relevant section of the Georgia code is copied below.

    O.C.G.A. 16-11-127
    Carrying weapons in unauthorized locations; penalty

    (a) As used in this Code section, the term:

    (1) "Bar" means an establishment that is devoted to the serving of alcoholic beverages for consumption by guests on the premises and in which the serving of food is only incidental to the consumption of those beverages, including, but not limited to, taverns, nightclubs, cocktail lounges, and cabarets.

    (2) "Courthouse" means a building occupied by judicial courts and containing rooms in which judicial proceedings are held.

    (3) "Government building" means:

    (A) The building in which a government entity is housed;

    (B) The building where a government entity meets in its official capacity; provided, however, that if such building is not a publicly owned building, such building shall be considered a government building for the purposes of this Code section only during the time such government entity is meeting at such building; or

    (C) The portion of any building that is not a publicly owned building that is occupied by a government entity.

    (4) "Government entity" means an office, agency, authority, department, commission, board, body, division, instrumentality, or institution of the state or any county, municipal corporation, consolidated government, or local board of education within this state.

    (5) "Parking facility" means real property owned or leased by a government entity, courthouse, jail, prison, place of worship, or bar that has been designated by such government entity, courthouse, jail, prison, place of worship, or bar for the parking of motor vehicles at a government building or at such courthouse, jail, prison, place of worship, or bar.

    (b) A person shall be guilty of carrying a weapon or long gun in an unauthorized location and punished as for a misdemeanor when he or she carries a weapon or long gun while:

    (1) In a government building;

    (2) In a courthouse;

    (3) In a jail or prison;

    (4) In a place of worship;

    (5) In a state mental health facility as defined in Code Section 37-1-1 which admits individuals on an involuntary basis for treatment of mental illness, developmental disability, or addictive disease; provided, however, that carrying a weapon or long gun in such location in a manner in compliance with paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of this Code section shall not constitute a violation of this subsection;

    (6) In a bar, unless the owner of the bar permits the carrying of weapons or long guns by license holders;

    (7) On the premises of a nuclear power facility, except as provided in Code Section 16-11-127.2, and the punishment provisions of Code Section 16-11-127.2 shall supersede the punishment provisions of this Code section; or

    (8) Within 150 feet of any polling place, except as provided in subsection (i) of Code Section 21-2-413.

    (c) Except as provided in Code Section 16-11-127.1, a license holder or person recognized under subsection (e) of Code Section 16-11-126 shall be authorized to carry a weapon as provided in Code Section 16-11-135 and in every location in this state not listed in subsection (b) of this Code section; provided, however, that private property owners or persons in legal control of property through a lease, rental agreement, licensing agreement, contract, or any other agreement to control access to such property shall have the right to forbid possession of a weapon or long gun on their property, except as provided in Code Section 16-11-135. A violation of subsection (b) of this Code section shall not create or give rise to a civil action for damages.

    (d) Subsection (b) of this Code section shall not apply:

    (1) To the use of weapons or long guns as exhibits in a legal proceeding, provided such weapons or long guns are secured and handled as directed by the personnel providing courtroom security or the judge hearing the case;

    (2) To a license holder who approaches security or management personnel upon arrival at a location described in subsection (b) of this Code section and notifies such security or management personnel of the presence of the weapon or long gun and explicitly follows the security or management personnel's direction for removing, securing, storing, or temporarily surrendering such weapon or long gun; and

    (3) To a weapon or long gun possessed by a license holder which is under the possessor's control in a motor vehicle or is in a locked compartment of a motor vehicle or one which is in a locked container in or a locked firearms rack which is on a motor vehicle and such vehicle is parked in a parking facility.

    (Bolding and underlining mine)
    "If you make something idiot proof, someone will make a better idiot."

    - Anon

  6. #80
    Member Array Buzz64's Avatar
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    Wife gave me a vest for our anniversary, concealed cary outfitters has a nice selection. Onky way I go anymore.

  7. #81
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    Interesting that this became a church carry thread. I carry at church - better safe than sorry, as always. I'd much rather have a gun and give awkward hugs, than not have a gun and watch people get gunned down in cold blood and not have a gun to use for defense.

    For the original post - SOB carry = lots of problems. Seems very comfortable and worry free when you are starting to carry, but there are lots of issues that come up with that position that never come up otherwise. That said - longer shirt...

    Austin

  8. #82
    Distinguished Member Array shadowwalker's Avatar
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    JD its to bad but true that there are nut cases out there that want to do damage in those type of places that people think is a safe area. I can not sit very long anymore so church has become difficult for me but when I was there every Sunday along with my weapon along with 6 to 8 others. BG are every where and they always want the upper hand and I for one will not give it to them if I can help it.

  9. #83
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    (2) To a license holder who approaches security or management personnel upon arrival at a location described in subsection (b) of this Code section and notifies such security or management personnel of the presence of the weapon or long gun and explicitly follows the security or management personnel's direction for removing, securing, storing, or temporarily surrendering such weapon or long gun;

    (Bolding and underlining mine)
    It would seem, due to the lawyer-speak, that a weapon could be secured WITHOUT being removed, stored, OR surrendered. Could it be secured in a holster on your belt?

  10. #84
    Member Array Bear67's Avatar
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    I carry in church. I know pastors who carry in their churches. I know a neighboring church where a majority of the Deacons carry. I know a little ol' lady who carries in church. This is Texas and a nut could shoot up a place of worship as easily as anyplace else. Be prepared!

    Just have to remember not to carry when the church building is used for a voting location as it is each year.

  11. #85
    VIP Member Array high pockets's Avatar
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    "It would seem, due to the lawyer-speak, that a weapon could be secured WITHOUT being removed, stored, OR surrendered. Could it be secured in a holster on your belt? "

    I guess, if you can afford the attorney fees, it might be worth trying.

    Sorry for the hi-jack.

    Back to the original post:

    I always found sitting with an SOB holster to be very uncomfortable, but here in Georgia, OC with a GWL is legal, so we don't really have to worry about inadvertant exposure of a firearm.
    "If you make something idiot proof, someone will make a better idiot."

    - Anon

  12. #86
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    I attend a large church in CA and we have had many instances where a gun may have been needed. We caught a guy concealing a sword to attack the pastor with.

  13. #87
    Member Array DubH00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by high pockets View Post
    You are skating on a slippery slope with this attitude. Georgia Carry is fighting to get the house of worship restriction removed, but it has not been rescinded, and there are no exceptions provided in the Georgia Statuary code. If you are not a law enforcement official, or some other exempt class of person, you are breaking the law to carry in a church in Georgia.

    Please note the relevant section of the Georgia code is copied below.

    O.C.G.A. 16-11-127
    Carrying weapons in unauthorized locations; penalty

    (a) As used in this Code section, the term:

    (1) "Bar" means an establishment that is devoted to the serving of alcoholic beverages for consumption by guests on the premises and in which the serving of food is only incidental to the consumption of those beverages, including, but not limited to, taverns, nightclubs, cocktail lounges, and cabarets.

    (2) "Courthouse" means a building occupied by judicial courts and containing rooms in which judicial proceedings are held.

    (3) "Government building" means:

    (A) The building in which a government entity is housed;

    (B) The building where a government entity meets in its official capacity; provided, however, that if such building is not a publicly owned building, such building shall be considered a government building for the purposes of this Code section only during the time such government entity is meeting at such building; or

    (C) The portion of any building that is not a publicly owned building that is occupied by a government entity.

    (4) "Government entity" means an office, agency, authority, department, commission, board, body, division, instrumentality, or institution of the state or any county, municipal corporation, consolidated government, or local board of education within this state.

    (5) "Parking facility" means real property owned or leased by a government entity, courthouse, jail, prison, place of worship, or bar that has been designated by such government entity, courthouse, jail, prison, place of worship, or bar for the parking of motor vehicles at a government building or at such courthouse, jail, prison, place of worship, or bar.

    (b) A person shall be guilty of carrying a weapon or long gun in an unauthorized location and punished as for a misdemeanor when he or she carries a weapon or long gun while:

    (1) In a government building;

    (2) In a courthouse;

    (3) In a jail or prison;

    (4) In a place of worship;

    (5) In a state mental health facility as defined in Code Section 37-1-1 which admits individuals on an involuntary basis for treatment of mental illness, developmental disability, or addictive disease; provided, however, that carrying a weapon or long gun in such location in a manner in compliance with paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of this Code section shall not constitute a violation of this subsection;

    (6) In a bar, unless the owner of the bar permits the carrying of weapons or long guns by license holders;

    (7) On the premises of a nuclear power facility, except as provided in Code Section 16-11-127.2, and the punishment provisions of Code Section 16-11-127.2 shall supersede the punishment provisions of this Code section; or

    (8) Within 150 feet of any polling place, except as provided in subsection (i) of Code Section 21-2-413.

    (c) Except as provided in Code Section 16-11-127.1, a license holder or person recognized under subsection (e) of Code Section 16-11-126 shall be authorized to carry a weapon as provided in Code Section 16-11-135 and in every location in this state not listed in subsection (b) of this Code section; provided, however, that private property owners or persons in legal control of property through a lease, rental agreement, licensing agreement, contract, or any other agreement to control access to such property shall have the right to forbid possession of a weapon or long gun on their property, except as provided in Code Section 16-11-135. A violation of subsection (b) of this Code section shall not create or give rise to a civil action for damages.

    (d) Subsection (b) of this Code section shall not apply:

    (1) To the use of weapons or long guns as exhibits in a legal proceeding, provided such weapons or long guns are secured and handled as directed by the personnel providing courtroom security or the judge hearing the case;

    (2) To a license holder who approaches security or management personnel upon arrival at a location described in subsection (b) of this Code section and notifies such security or management personnel of the presence of the weapon or long gun and explicitly follows the security or management personnel's direction for removing, securing, storing, or temporarily surrendering such weapon or long gun; and

    (3) To a weapon or long gun possessed by a license holder which is under the possessor's control in a motor vehicle or is in a locked compartment of a motor vehicle or one which is in a locked container in or a locked firearms rack which is on a motor vehicle and such vehicle is parked in a parking facility.

    (Bolding and underlining mine)
    Yes we got that paper work and all the laws at our
    meeting and a a LEO that is head of the security broke it all down. That was fi question sherr I read through all of it.I and circle it. He is the one that pointed out the grassy area and consulted with some other LEOs to make sure everything was on the up and up. Many MEGA have armed security. I would have never made that decision without research.

  14. #88
    Senior Member Array velo99's Avatar
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    Churches in Tx have to post. Mine doesn't.....
    In answer to the numerous calls as to why carry sob... Because I like it there. It is comfortable for me most of the time. If a BG asks for my wallet I won't attract his ire when I reach behind my back to get a surprise for him. I also carry owb @ 4 ish sometimes. The biggest issue I was having was printing with part of my gun protruding thru the chair back. I have now been carrying almost constantly for the last six months. Live & learn.
    We have different gifts,according to the grace given to each of us.

  15. #89
    Member Array soserius's Avatar
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    I recently bought a iwb for a 357 taurus. great holster, but beware of wearing it directly in the small of your back. i heard a story of a police officer who wore his there when he was off duty, slipped on some ice, and landed on his back. He had so much damage to his spine that he was permately disabled. changed his life around. I have done alot of studying on where i should pack mine, but really, its where you are most comfortable. Just be aware of that brother. good luck

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